It's finally time for the third and final part of our irreverent look at Watches and Wonders 2023, this time we are focusing on Cartier, Tudor, Hublot, Baume & Mercier and Chanel.
ROB: Okay, let's continue with something completely left field... the Chanel J12 Cybernetic. I'm torn on this one because as a Chanel I expect it to be elegant and tasteful, but this is neither. On the other hand I kind of like it because it reminds me of artworks by Salvador Dali (who I like a lot). I don't know, it just seems a bit too gimmicky, especially at a cost of £12,000.
JIM: If you hadn't shown this to me I never would have even noticed it. I think it is a very cool piece for ladies. The design is definitely 'out there' but for this one I think it somehow works. It looks very glossy, is it made from ceramic?
ROB: Yes, I think Chanel were the first to use ceramic, in the J12. You may remember my wife has a ceramic TAG Heuer Formula 1 which is a non too subtle 'homage' to the J12...
JIM: I never realised those Formula 1's are Chanel copies! Very interesting. I gotta be honest with you, I am a bit prejudice about Chanel and I always just thought of them as overpriced fashion watches. Something tells me this is not the full story, a quick Google search and I just learnt that these J12 movements are made by Kenissi and Chanel is apparently part owners of Kenissi. Who knew!
ROB: Same with Dior, you don't really think of them as serious players in the watch marker, but do you remember I wrote about the Dior Grand Bal my wife tried on a few years ago. That was impressive, whether it's worth £26,000 I don't know, but it was an extremely nice watch.
While the watches remain super cool and I would very much enjoy to own one, Hublot and Murakami made this move where they decided to spit their fans in the face while laughing their way to the bank. How? Well in 2021 they boarded the scam train of so called "NFT's" and released what they call 324 unique Hublot Takashi Murakami NFT's. Why is this relevant in 2023? Well, you will only be allowed the chance to purchase one of the brand new 12 watches if you own the right type of NFT of the 324 released in 2021. And when I say 12, I mean 12, because if I understand correctly these new pieces are 12 new unique pieces, not 12 models made in X numbers. Simply just 12 unique new watches with the Murakami flower dial in different colours.
ROB: Lame, but okay...
JIM: You think that is crazy? How about the fact that there is a 13th special watch, in rainbow, which includes the colours of all the other 12? And the only way to be allowed the chance to buy that rainbow edition is if you own all 12 NFT's associated with the other 12 new unique watches. If no one manages to collect all 12 NFT's for the honour of being allowed to buy the rainbow, Hublot claims it will sell it on auction, this way ensuring that they can squeeze as much money as possible out of this madness. Well, the auction might be for charity. But still, what a fun way to gently engage in mental abuse of your customers and fans.
ROB: Wow, that is the stupidest thing I've heard since... well yesterday (there's a lot of stupid shit going on right now let's be honest). Haha. So let me get this straight, someone has to buy all twelve piece uniques to be able to buy the rainbow one. I mean... I presume they are only for sale in Japan then? Or are they gonna make it completely impossible and spread them out across the world? I dunno, how collectible is this guy? You know there could be some hyper-rich lunatic that wants all of them I guess. Maybe...
The 12 new watches are priced at 50k Swiss Francs a piece apparently. I am not able to find a price for the rainbow. Who knows how much the NFT's cost and what it would take to find and buy all 12 NFT's for the chance to buy the rainbow.
ROB: Oh right, I misunderstood. Sorry... well that makes slightly more sense. As far as anything to do with NFTs can ever make any sense. But on the other hand, it's still completely stupid. So if I own all the NFTs required to own the rainbow then I am the only person able to buy the others, but if I don't want to then no one else can. Makes perfect sense. How do these people come up with these ideas... I thought NFTs were dead and buried? Isn't this all a bit last year?
Anyway, all NFT scam bullshit aside, what do you think of the watches?
ROB: Ummm. Well... honestly, I'm not sure. I like that they spin, that looks pretty cool... but I'm not really keen on the smiley face and the whole... I guess it's like any art collaboration, if you don't like the artist then you're probably not going to like the watch. And 50,000CHF... although I guess that's partly because they are piece unique. Also, I feel like I'm going off rainbows on watches.
JIM: Rainbows are hotter than ever! Or is that just with me? First thing I do when I win 500 billion dollars on the lottery? Buying a rainbow watch damn it!
ROB: Seems like rainbows have too much 'agenda' to them these days.
ROB: Okay so while we are on the subject of Hublot, what about the 'full carbon' Big Bang... which actually isn't made of carbon at all. At least what you can see isn't, it's actually Texalium which is coated with an aluminium film to give it that dramatic silver look. Don't ask me why all the photos are in black and white. Apparently this stuff has much better impact resistance than actual carbon, which I don't know if you remember but AP made a Royal Oak with a carbon bezel and mostly they got switched for ceramic ones because carbon chips like a bitch!
JIM: Super cool! Anyone buying something like this is a hundred times cooler than a Hodinkee reader buying a Royal Oak 'just because it is the thing to have'. The back is as interesting as the front. We stick to the topic of spinning things on the dial, that logo micro rotor on the dial side is such a home run from Hublot, love all versions I've seen with that. I bet that case and bracelet treatment sparkles magically on wrist.
ROB: Wanna take a guess at the price, bearing in mind of course that it is a tourbillon?
JIM: Oooh, I haven't actually seen the price. Ok, I will place my bet at 175k American dollares.
ROB: Well then you are in luck sir, because this is actually a relative bargain at $127,000, which leaves you $50,000 over to buy all the Tudors of your dreams.
JIM: Haha perfect, I will add one Murakami NFT for the remaining 50k. So you mention Tudor. Is it time? Should we go there? Is it just I who feel that the Tudor buzz died extremely quickly this year?
ROB: Let's do it!
JIM: I was surprised to see that Tudor released a lesser, somewhat shittier, version of the Black Bay 58. Apparently they call it the Black Bay 1954. A small sized 37mm diver, very similar to the 58 but with way less warmth and a weaker personality. I am not so sure this one will be as big of a success as the 58, what do you think? On the other hand it might be unfair to compare the two, this new 1954 should perhaps just be looked at as a watch for people who enjoy cold, small and boring?
ROB: Yeah, as you can probably imagine I was non-plussed by the release of the BB54. It's like, there was a 41mm which everyone seemed to love. Then there was the 58... which was 39mm, obviously, and then everyone turned on the 41 and said that actually, on reflection, it was too big and rubbish and the 58 became the Tudor watch to have. And now the same thing seems to have happened again... except, it doesn't, because I don't see everyone selling their now (supposedly shitty) BB58s to buy the 54.
When I saw it I just thought. Oh. Okay. And then I heard the raving and rolled my eyes a little. And then someone posted a photo of the 39 and 37mm together and to be honest I found it hard to tell which was which. But on the other hand, the other day I was saying about how TAG Heuer used to make the same watch in a variety of sizes so this is basically like that. If they bring out a 34mm and a 30mm then they've basically covered every wrist size.
Having said all that we know someone who tried it on and his reaction was 'I'm in love', but as yet I don't think he has plans to sell his BB58. I presume from what you've said you aren't planning to sell yours either...
JIM: If I ever sell my 58 it will be to buy a TAG Heuer, mohahaha!
ROB: Good. What else did they release? A white dial version of the GMT wasn't it?
ROB: Haha, well... now you mention it, yes that hand looks stupid. And the dial looks creamy, not white. I'm not sure I like that. But then I can't say I've ever really liked the Tudor GMT, even the very first time when the man in Harrods showed me the one they had behind the counter (when they were hard to get), I was like 'Oh... really, is that it'.
JIM: You know I have thought a couple of times how strange it is that I don't like the Royal. On paper it should work perfectly for me. I love gold, I love two-tone, I love sleezy looking things. But there is something about them, I can't really put my finger on it but I these just don't do anything for me. Maybe the problem is the roman numerals, never really appreciated roman numerals on watches.
Tudor really doesn't resonate with me as a brand, I can't actually think of anything I would buy from them. I quite like the 42mm Pelagos, but even then I don't think I would ever buy one. Did you know they also released a new 42mm Tudor Royal in two tone with a salmon dial? Should have thought you would have been all over that...
And by the way, it is actually a brown dial on the two-tone. Disgusting. The salmon dial is not a two-tone. If I had to choose between the two my choice would be the 41mm salmon, all steel, day-date with diamond indices. That one is actually kind of nice. But not nice enough to deserve my money.
You a fan?
ROB: Umm, no. If I didn't know better I'd say it was something from the 1983 Tudor catalogue that they somehow forgot to discontinue. It also strikes me that the sort of person who buys this is kidding themselves that it's actually a Rolex, and would be the sort of person to tell everyone that it actually is a Rolex, actually... except it isn't. Also I usually like integrated bracelets but the edges of the case look weird with that curve... nah, definitely not for me.
I see Tudor also released some sort of mega super-accurate Black Bay, though it seems to have gone rather under the radar...
JIM: Yes! The new, looking just like the old one, Black Bay in oversized 41mm. A mighty master chronometer, tested like a proper Omega and now sold on a brand new almost Rolex style jubilee bracelet. I think the red bezel looks cool, bracelet seems luxurious and well made. Price seems reasonable considering the master chronometer testing.
ROB: How can you refer to a 41mm as oversized though... that's hilarious. You know I thought the bracelet looked different, Tudor are trying everything to make the 41mm desirable aren't they? I must admit though, it does look smart. I actually liked the original Black Bay when it came out with the red bezel, at one point I was even considering buying one (this was before TAG-mania hit), but then I learned it was a hipster watch and was to be avoided like the plague... haha.
JIM: Hehe well it is not really oversized compared to normal watches. Just with the Tudor mania of going smaller and smaller it feels like the watch community gave up on the 41mm sized Black Bay a long time ago. I never ever see anyone posting a wrist shot of one, anywhere, do you?
ROB: Never, it's like it only exists in Tudor boutique windows. I can't honestly see this changing that either, the slating of the original 41mm (with it's big stupid flat sides) has reached such fever pitch now that I can't see it coming back. Especially now everyone decided that the 39mm is too big and they want the 37mm.
ROB: So let's talk about the Baume and Mercier Riviera Azur. What is the first thing that spring to mind when you look at these?
JIM: Without overthinking I will scream Audemar Piguet offshore! The blue one looks super sweet, like something them rich folk wear on their yachts.
ROB: Oh really, okay.... I thought you hated these? Do they not look a little bit like the Aquaracer GMT? You know, the blue and white one that you already forgot about? Because it was sooooo disappointing.
JIM: No you crazy, this has no resemblance with the Aquaracer GMT. How much does it cost? I bet I could buy two Aquaracers for the price of one of these?
ROB: The blue one is 4350EUR... I guess it's just that it actually reminds me more than anything of a Maurice LaCroix, which is in the sub £2000 price bracket. Although fair enough this does have the superfunky blue glass dial and whatnot. Not keen on the rubber on the bezel though, that's gonna need replacing at some point. I dunno, maybe I'm not as keen on aggressively modern watches as I thought. Somehow they look cheap even when they aren't.
JIM: So basically the same price as an Aquaracer. I gotta tell you dude, I would choose any configuration of the Aquaracer over this Riviera watch. Who even buys a Baume & Mercier? I've always thought of that brand as a brand that must be popular in some other part of the world. I don't think I have even seen a store that sells this brand.
ROB: Yeah, I hear you. I did find a really cool looking Baume and Mercier ladies watch in a watch magazine once, showed it to my wife and she loved it. Turned out it was a limited edition of 100 pieces... typical. But you just said you could buy two Aquaracers, which means you think it looks more expensive than it is.... right?
JIM: Hmmm, well I suppose so! But honestly, I had no idea about the price point of this brand. I was just wildly guessing. Perhaps I should have a look and try one on at some point, just to see what these funky watches are all about.
ROB: Yes, I believe they are gaining traction in the respect stakes in recent years, so yes maybe that would be good. Though where you can find one to try on I have no idea whatsoever.
ROB: Okay, let's wrap this up... before we both lose the will to live. And this final selection is something you put forward, these Cartier Santos micro rotor models. I have to say I think they are pretty cool, which seems weird coming from me because Cartier is such a sort of 'old-money' brand, but I do have this soft spot for Cartier, perhaps because I visited the Cartier exhibition in London a few years ago, and also back when I was open to buying other brands I tried on a beautiful blacked-out Santos with a red second hand, that was absolutely killer. Incredibly one turned up pre-owned in my local TAG Heuer AD and I spent many a moment looking at in the window wondering if I could scrape together £4500 to buy it..
As to these specific watches it feels like Cartier are going more and more down this skeletonisation route and I wonder how their core customers feel about it? You know the scorn the Heuer-bois poured on the majestically perfect Heuer 01 skeleton when it came out, you think there's a Cartier forum somewhere where some dude called 'Santos123' rips these to shreds?
JIM: For sure there is! I am not sure who a typical Cartier collector would be but I imagine someone who keeps buying Tank-styled pieces that, to me, all look the same. On the other hand I also think of Cartier as a manufacturer that has always made funky weird, experimental pieces so perhaps these skeletonised pieces aren't so tabu after all? I am no expert in Cartier but how about that Crash model, or the Obus Savonnette? Oh yes, that weird Basculante. My guess is there are plenty of funky releases throughout history.
ROB: Well that's true, Cartier certainly have made some freaky pieces in the past, but like most brands it tends to get distilled down to one 'iconic' watch, in this case the classic Tank.
JIM: Do you think possibly these more modern styled Cartier watches attract the male 'new-money' prospect who can now get proper 'his and hers' Cartier pieces? In the olden days, all you could really get was a 'hers and hers' but for him and her. Well maybe not, the Santos Octagon looked pretty manly didn't it. Does that one exist today? Total Genta vibes. Maybe he designed it...
ROB: Hmm, it has a distinctly 80s vibe to it don't it. Not sure if Genta was involved, but it's certainly that kind of aesthetic. Do you think there can be an easier job in watchmaking that being head of the Cartier dial department? I think we'll do white, with black Roman Numerals. And blued hands. Still, if it works...
JIM: Haha yes, but I think they are smart! Consistency clearly is the way to succeed when building a luxury brand that will outlive us all.
ROB: It certainly feels like the watch community in general is more open to Cartier these days. In the past it felt like they were in this strange no man's land between watch maker and jeweller, I guess in part that's due to the growing importance of 'history' and provenance in watchmaking over the last 10-15 years.
JIM: I don't want to come across as an old ignorant prejudice man. But... there is always a but when I start a sentence like that - I have always looked at Cartier as a women's brand. Up until a couple years ago when some of the more contemporary models caught my eye, like the black one you mentioned.
ROB: Yeah, to some degree you are right though, and it's never been a properly 'cool' brand until relatively recently. I think it's a bit like when the Chav's started wearing Burberry. I don't really think Cartier want people like me wearing their watches, you might be okay, if you put on a nice jacket and trimmed your beard a little. But I don't think they'd appreciate me rocking a Tank with my hoodie and trainers, even a black PVD one. I think maybe that's why I never bought it even though I liked it, it doesn't seem like it's really for me.
Okay, well I think that concludes this year's Watches & Wonders coverage, big thanks to Jim for wading through all this with me, it is much appreciated. And it's taken so long in fact that it's only about ten months until it all starts again! Can't wait...
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