Greetings dear readers and welcome to our annual round up of Watches & Wonders. As ever I have our delightful Swedish contributor Jim Dollares with me and well, I think it might be an understatement to say he's fired up and ready to talk...
ROB: Hi Jimbo, how's it going on this beautiful Monday morning?
JIM: Hi Rob, thanks for reaching out. Let me start out by saying that I have now calmed down a bit after my utter rage I felt seeing the very weak line up presented by TAG Heuer this year. Did I say weak? Yes you heard me!
ROB: Well, yes I must admit I wasn't exactly blown away by this year's W&W offerings, or indeed much of anything that's come out this year... in fact at this point in time I'm struggling to think what I can use my WOTY vote on. I mean, there's still a long way to go and I'm sure there's dozens of new watches due for release before we get to that point. But even so, it's been a fairly lacklustre start to Mr Tornare's reign (although you can hardly blame him as he's only been in the job for five minutes).
Okay, so where do you wanna start? How about the new Panda glassbox?
JIM: The panda glassbox in theory could have been something really nice. I mean, we saw with the 60th anniversary of the Carrera how exceptionally wonderful a perfectly executed glassbox panda can be. What TAG Heuer released this year though, is like the mentally challenged cousin of the CBK221H.
ROB: Yes, yet again everyone seems to love this latest glassbox and yet again I feel like there's something wrong with me because I honestly think it's pretty odd looking. I really don't understand where all this positivity comes from; you know, all these You Tube watch gurus making videos with titles like 'TAG is back' and 'TAG is smashing it out of the park with these new glassboxes'. And I mean I say everybody, but compare the COCO score for this new version with the 60th Anniversary - 6/10 V 8.7/10, that shows me that at least the COCO has it's collective head screwed on right!
JIM: Could it be that TAG is investing heavily in positively impacting the so called watch media? I mean, people who play journalist pretend, and get invited to free trips, fancy dinners and receive gift bags. They post videos and photos showing how companies like LVMH are treating them like royalty at these luxury events. Of course these pretend journalists end up feeling very positive about all the product aspects.
You and I both know of sites and forum members who always love and praise everything that TAG does. There are even TAG Heuer focused collector websites that sound as if they are simply echoing the sales material from TAG's marketing department. Lets not forget also about some of the wealthy collectors who seem to buy everything that TAG releases, possibly to ensure that they keep receiving the invitations to product previews, red carpet events and such.
My guess is that people in the real world, like many members of our COCO council, see a new glassbox which is worse than the former CBK generation in (almost) every aspect.
What do you think?
ROB: It's possible. It seems very strange to me that after years and years of people constantly criticising the brand and putting them down, that these are the watches that make everyone suddenly change their mind. But then again you know that I am always the one swimming upstream so I'm kind of used to everyone else liking what I don't, haha.
JIM: I am pretty sure we would both be more positive about this years W&W event if we had hotels and dinners paid for and then sent back home with goodie bags full of TAG branded gifts.
ROB: Well it certainly couldn't hurt... haha, but I don't think that's gonna happen somehow.
For me the other thing about this particular Glassbox is that the Panda design has highlighted how the subdials foul the flange, which wasn't as noticeable on the other models. That looks very clumsy to my eyes, and also the subdials look a bit too far apart somehow, though they are no different than the other versions...
At least you felt better about the new lady Carreras right?
JIM: You mean the unisex Carreras? Yes! Well at least one of them. That pink gold copper like dial is gorgeous and you know me, watches are all about looks and how they make my insides tingle with joy. I look forward to seeing this one in person, I bet it looks amazing. Did you see that the bezel and crown are solid 18k gold? Pretty damn sweet. I couldn't find info on the bracelet gold so I will assume it is capped gold links.
ROB: Well... I thought the render looked pretty sketchy personally but I'm definitely reserving judgment on this one because gold and gold dials especially are very tricky. It could very well look great in person.
JIM: It does say a lot though, that my favourite W&W release is a little Calibre 7 lady Carrera. Doesn't mean this watch was the greatest thing ever made, rather that the line up disappointed.
ROB: Absolutely. But surely, as a lover of all things shiny and bright you must have some favourable words for the rose gold Skipper, though of course it is yet another pesky 39mm glassbox.
JIM: I have zero good things to say about that one. It is pricey, it doesn't look right, it has the wrong tone of gold (yellow gold or no gold is my motto). I know what you are going to say, but hey Jim you just said you love the lady copper Carrera. Yes I did and this proves my point, pink gold is the woman's gold and yellow gold is the man's gold. But honestly, the standard steel Skipper has not won me over yet.
It sounds like you love the Skipper then?
ROB: Does it? Haha. Well, no... I think the steel Skipper is certainly the best looking of the uninspiring 39mm glassboxes (though way behind the 42mm Porsche Chronosprint), but is it improved by the addition of a rose gold case? I think not. And why rose gold not yellow gold? I don't really get that, surely yellow gold would have worked better with that blue dial? And since orange is such a strong accent for the Skipper does that really go with the case? I'm not sure, but those lucky enough to have seen it seem to like it. As it happens I am headed to London next weekend so there's a good chance I will see one, or if not then at least I might get to see the new INDY500 Formula 1.
Maybe someone at the boutique will even be able to tell me what the story is with the red 11?
JIM: Surely the red 11 has some major heritage significance, going back to the days when Jack Heuer and Steve MacQueen hung out in the Ferrari factory arm wrestling and comparing chronograph sizes.
I bet there are Indycar fans with money who collect all these Indy 500 TAG watches. Some of them are pretty cool and this one is alright. Not the best one but certainly not the worst.
ROB: So the latest I've heard is that the '11' is to do with the first Indy 500 being run in 1911. Sounds plausible, but who knows... you'd think TAG Heuer would have explained it on the website. Oh silly me. What am I saying?
Also, I did see the rose gold Skipper in London and honestly it didn't really make any impression on me at all.
Okay, so we've touched on all of TAG Heuer's 2024 releases save for the big statement pieces, or the so called 'halo' products... namely the £121,000 Monaco Rattrapantes.
JIM: I hate the description 'halo product'. Wouldn't it be hilarious if KIA made a £360 000 luxury car with a Audi engine. Car dealers would be like "Oh you like this one, aye, yeah this is a halo product that no one buys. May I interest you in this £40k KIA instead?"
ROB: Haha, that's exactly what I was thinking the other day... you know I watched Julien Tornare on Watches TV earlier and he seems like a decent guy, and he seems genuine, like he really believe that what they've delivered is something special and it may well be, after all people who've actually seen it are queueing up to tell us it's spectacular in person... but for whatever reason it does not come across well in photographs and videos and that's a big problem because how many of us are likely to get the chance to see one of these in person?
And I get that it's not for us, that it's not aimed at us, because we simply cannot afford to buy it. But if the intention is for it to act as a halo product then surely it should at least be something we wish we could own, one day, if God smiled on us or lady luck showered us with good fortune.
But I don't see it, and honestly the COCO hammered these... 4.6 for the red and 4.2 for the blue. Those are terrible, terrible scores. Those are only a bit over what the fugly ass Monaco Riviera scored (which seems a bit unfair honestly), and I don't really think it's just the price. I think, you know, TAG Heuer has this history of genuine innovation, with the V4, the Flying 1000 and the Mikrotourbillon/Mikropendulum watches and to come back to the haute horlogerie table with a complication that can be had (albeit admittedly not at the same level of refinement) in watches for a 10th of the price - I just think it falls a little short.
And it's not even particularly pretty, is it. Especially the blue one... those subdials just droop off the dial like wilted lettuce. I'm sure the detailing is amazing, but we can't see that sitting here so... I don't know. it seems to look slightly better in the videos, but it still isn't coming close to blowing my socks off or making me wish I had a supercar I could sell to fund it.
JIM: I couldn't agree more and speaking of supercars I think the car comparison holds up also in the sense that some car companies that make regular cars, like say BMW or Audi both make decent semi cheap ordinary folk cars, also make a supercar every now and then. And that supercar can be super in its design and when I see it in photos I can genuinely lust for it. It makes total sense why a car like that can help sell 'cheap' £40k BMW's to the masses. A halo Monaco from TAG Heuer should have the same impact right? But as you said, these Monacos look utterly dreadful in their design and again I am wondering who came up with these designs.
ROB: Okay, I don't want to beat these to death, so let's finish on a positive note... while the press didn't cover them (which indicated perhaps they weren't actually shown at W&W24) it seems TAG Heuer also released a couple of new Calibre 16 Formula 1's; a blue/orange one and a green/orange one. While the prices did catch some flack from the COCO, these two mass-market chronographs outscored almost everything that was shown in Geneva... perhaps there's a message there for TAG Heuer that they should stick to doing the basics well?
JIM: Yes! Two refined classics, easily spotted as typical sporty fun TAG Heuer chronographs. I'm having trouble choosing between the green and the blue but I think the blue is slightly sexier in my eyes. What is the price of these?
ROB: £3300
JIM: And how do we feel about that? I mean, I would rather spend £3300 on this than £10,000 on a Monaco skeleton but I still find the price of these Formula 1's too high.
ROB: Unfortunately yes, but it seems we need to recalibrate our thinking on that because everything has gone up and it's no good singling out TAG Heuer because it's all of the big brands. I mean, where this ends I have no idea... it seems like all the big Swiss brands will soon be competing in the £10-15,000 bracket which is way beyond my means. Honestly my attitude now is that I will very rarely buy a brand new TAG Heuer, more likely I will wait for them to come around pre-owned.
I mean look at my Solargraph, I got that for £1600 or something from Watchfinder and it's like new. Thankfully I couldn't bring myself to buy it new at £2500 and now it's nearly £3000, there's no way on Earth I would pay that for it, much as I love it. And, if I'm completely honest with you, I'm a bit over chronographs. Pretty much every watch that I've had a repair issue with has been a chronograph, they cost a fortune and I never ever use them. So what is the point?
JIM: Solid point and I agree about never using a chronograph. The only occasion when I time something is in the kitchen and I always prefer using a dive watch bezel, not a bloody chronograph. As much as I love my Carrera, in the kitchen I wish it was an Aquaracer for sure.
About the pricing I think you are right yes, all the Swiss brands have lost their minds upping the prices five, ten, 15 percent per year, but the conversation will get repetitive if we get hung up on prices all the time.
Prices aside, the new Formula 1 chronos are without a doubt, the most solid releases from TAG Heuer!
ROB: Yeah, it's a bitter pill to swallow, but it is what it is (and having now seen them I can add that yes these new F1 chronos are pretty cool, especially the blue one).
Finally, before we wrap up, do you get the feeling that Watches & Wonders was a bit flat this year? Now the Rolex hype has died down I keep seeing videos on YouTube with people saying the same thing and I wonder if perhaps it's because the watch industry is feeling the after effects of the last few years with the Covid bubble bursting?
Or have we finally just reached the point where the brands are running out of things to re-issue and re-cycle and so we end up with a Rolex GMT with a black and grey bezel, which can't really be anybody's idea of a good time. Is it finally time for the watch industry to start looking forwards again or am I just being completely naive?
JIM: I think the Swiss need to cool down a bit. No way they can keep this madness up of releasing an endless amount of new watches every year. It is unsustainable. Unless, like you said, they can find the balls to innovate and look forward. But honestly, do you think they could ever do that?
I think Ariel Adams said it well when he spoke about release cycles and that Swiss brands need to slow down. The brands can't maintain this and customers get paralyzed and stop buying because what if something better might just be released soon. Another negative impact of the Swiss way of doing business is that new releases are forgotten at record speeds. You remember that cool watch they released two months ago? Well no, not really but I like these five new watches released this week.
ROB: Well yeah, that is a good point. People probably do worry that maybe if they spend the £6000 they have now then maybe something cooler will come out next month. And isn't it funny how you look at brands like Rolex and even Omega and they've managed to cultivate this following for their 'basic' watches. I mean I guess you can say TAG Heuer have that too with the SMQ Monaco, but that aside, there's not really a go-to Carrera that everyone wants is there? I guess that's what truly marks the difference between the iconic brands and those who have icons in their collections.
JIM: Who decided that Swiss watch brands must release brand new product every year like this any way?
ROB: Well, actually, I have a theory about that. It seems to me that the watch industry relies on people like us, well not us actually as we only buy now and then, but 'enthusiasts' who can afford to buy multiple new watches at retail every year. I think the average F1/Aquaracer customer is likely a one-off or once every three to five years buyer, but I think the Carrera/Monaco buyer is one that buys regularly and so they need to keep feeding that. Which is why the F1 collection is actually fairly static but there's always a new variation on the same old Monacos and Carreras - like the older glassboxes, we had silver then the Dato, then the red then the green then the Panda. Somehow with the new glassboxes we've seen five or six of them in the space of a year or something...
And I imagine this pans out to the other brands too, you know... the Omega fan who already has a couple of different Speedies but now he 'has' to get a white dial because some old man who used to be James Bond wore it once. And how ridiculous is the watch world that the community loses it's collective shit because there's a new version with a white dial.
You know it's funny you mentioned Ariel because I also picked up on another ABTW comment, I think it was David or maybe Ripley, and he said how ridiculous would it be if a car company brought out a new car and it was only available in black or white, and orange - but there are only a limited number of orange, and then three months later they bring it out in blue. I thought that was hilarious. Of course, where that falls down is the idea of a watch company bringing out a new watch. And that's why they have made dials special, because they don't actually want to bring out a new watch in case it fails and they look stupid on Instagram.
So where does that leave us. We are in a dead end where no one dares to try something new and all we get is re-issues of more and more obscure watches and anniversies and celebrations of stupider and stupider things... and hey guys, guess what we brought out a new dial colour, it's green but with a hint of blue because some racing drivers wore blue once. I mean.... Jesus Christ. The watch industry is in a bad way honestly. Look back at a catalogue from 15 years ago and see the difference. But as long as we dress it up with a bit of carbon here and some 'titanium' (not a 'modern' material by any stretch of the imagination by the way, TAG has been using it for FORTY years) then we can pretend we are being innovative and of course always avant garde...
JIM: Wow. I really don't have much to add to that. I guess we hope for something more interesting to come later in 2024? Perhaps an in-house movement designed, developed and manufactured by Kenissi?
ROB: Haha. Yes indeed! Well thanks again Jim, see you back here in twelve months!
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