ROB: Welcome back Jim...
JIM: Hi Rob. I'm really looking forward to this because I am totally blown away by the releases from TAG Heuer this year! What are your feelings after having a day of reflecting over the news presented yesterday?
ROB: To be honest I was pretty taken aback yesterday morning when I turned my computer on; I wasn't really expecting everything (or almost everything) to be released first thing and I certainly didn't expect six new watches from TAG Heuer. I was pretty much expecting the Gulf Monaco and the orange Aquaracer, but everything else.... wow!
The Solargraph in particular was completely out of left field, and that's one that I am genuinely intrigued by. That could well be the new Aquaracer for me, if it's a sensible price.
JIM: Yes I know, so much fun to get some actual surprises! For me, this year is a very positive sign of things to come and the direction Frederic Arnault is taking TAG Heuer in. A clear focus on TAG being its own thing, strengthening its own identity. I am happy they don't just do what many other brands do lately that rely solely on just releasing re-issues of things from the past.
I agree about the Solargraph and although I can't help but feel its a bit of a hippie thing to power a watch based on solar, I definitely appreciate that they make some efforts in the quartz space. You know I have been wishing for a couple of years now that TAG should improve on their quartz movements and enter into the high accuracy quartz area. I feel a lot more positive now that this is something we might actually see in the next couple of years.
The carbon bezel with infused lume seems so cool too, I look forward to seeing some video reviews demonstrating how that bad boy glows in the dark.
ROB: I'm all for solar power, especially since the new Aquaracer back doesn't come off without taking the bezel off first. But then again, I've just seen the price... and that's gonna be a hard sell in the boutiques I'm sure. Go on, take a guess... $2950... maybe it's not so bad, if it's some kind of high accuracy movement?
JIM: Yeah I did see the price and it is really difficult to guess whether the market is willing to pay so much or not. But I mean, it is roughly the same price as the calibre 5 versions right, and this Solargraph has a black DLC case with the super cool carbon lume bezel insert. So price kind of makes sense. It will be a bit of a niche watch for sure but hopefully there is a decent market for it and TAG will invest more into quartz tech. I have not yet found any information about the accuracy of the movement, guessing it ain't high accuracy because then I am sure they would have mentioned this in the W&W keynote.
ROB: Yeah, you know me I love my quartz movements, and to be honest I am probably more minded to buy this than a Calibre 5 (with all it's associated worries). Plus it answers my concern about not being able to change the battery myself when the watch is ten years old. It would be cool if in future they offered a wider range of solar powered options so you could get a classic steel/blue dial Aquaracer in this format. And if you think about it, it costs about £85 to get a battery changed, so eventually the gap narrows...
What about the orange Aquaracer? I've seen a couple of different shots and it definitely looks lighter than the old orange Aquaracer from about 10-15 years ago. That was way too dark in my opinion, this one looks much brighter. I kinda feel like if you want an orange dial watch you probably want it to err on the brighter side.
Oh man yes, the orange Aquaracer 300 is probably my favourite of the new releases. I remain a bit hesitant until I have seen live photos and video of it but the dial looks like it can be a perfect summer look. Rumours before release was that the dial would be opaline but I have not seen any confirmation on this now when the watch is actually released, have you seen anything about it? I checked TAG's website and you can never guess all the exhaustive information they give about the dial... "Orange" is all they have to say about it. No shit!
ROB: Yeah, the good old TAG website sure does give you every possible detail you could wish to know huh?
So while we are on the subject of the Aquaracer what about that Superdiver? I'm not sure I like every aspect of it, not least the Panerai Ploproff crown guard, but it's high time TAG Heuer had a hardcore diver back in the range, but again at £5500 it's certainly not going to be on my shopping list (especially since the Aquagraph is more than adequate for my 'diving' needs - haha).
JIM: Hardcore diver is indeed great to see in the lineup and I think it looks cool. Obviously way too big for my lady wrists but I am sure this one will be popular among some collectors. Can't help but think though that it got shadowed a bit by the Omega Ultra Deep which I believe is rated to 6000 meters. Suddenly 1000m sounds like an amateur watch! On the other hand I think the Ultra Deep is more than double the price so maybe 5500 for the Superdiver aint too bad in the grand scheme of things?
What caught my attention with the Superdiver would be the movement. I really hope this movement will be implemented in some of the normal divers eventually. It has some modern specs and TAG claims it is regulated to within plus/minus 3 seconds per day which is kind of awesome if you ask me.
ROB: Yes, it would be good if TAG Heuer could move away from the Sellita movements across the range, my only concern there is that rather than improving the movements to match the prices they will probably end up lifting the prices again and putting them even more out of reach.
JIM: Yes I was thinking about the dilemma of better movements causing even further price increases. But at the same time I feel I would rather pay 4500 for a watch with a quality movement, than 3200 for a base Sellita. Bare in mind that I have never actually owned a Sellita and that I base my prejudice solely on things I read online. As you know, my next watch is very likely to be powered by a Sellita so who knows, in a couple of years I might have a different perspective on that!
ROB: Speaking of out of reach, we have to talk about the Carrera Plasma. Well TAG Heuer certainly 'dropped the mic' there, huh? People say no one expected Rolex to release a left-handed GMT II at Watches & Wonders, but I'd wager even less people would have predicted a $350,000 diamond encrusted Carrera Nanograph...
JIM: Yes the Plasma, the mighty Plasma. First of all, what the hell is lab grown diamonds? Is it just me being all un-educated, it sounds like fake diamonds made in a factory but TAG is kind of braggy about what they can do with these non diamond diamonds?
ROB: Yeah, I don't really get this whole lab-diamond thing either to be honest. I thought the whole point of diamonds was that they are scarce and hence valuable... if you can just make them then doesn't that rather undermine the whole value of them? I mean, if you could just 'make' gold, then it wouldn't be rare and valuable right?
Anyway, I believe the watch is a Nanograph, so maybe that technology hasn't disappeared after all, and the use of diamonds in the case is very clever. I just don't know if I really 'like' it. At first I thought I did, but then the more I look at it the more the randomness of the diamonds bugs me...
JIM: I wish I could see this one in person, the powder kind of looking diamond crystals on the dial probably pops beautifully in person.
No matter the design, nice to see TAG flexing their muscles!
Speaking of the Nanograph, got me thinking about the Solargraph again and the whole Isograph fiasco. With the Solargraph hitting the market in October, do you think there is a risk for major recalls and Solargraph gone in 2023 again? Lets hope not!
ROB: Erm, well... no I don't think so, from what I've read this is pretty much proven technology already, so no I don't think there's anything to worry about there.
So what about the new Monaco Gulf? I'm really quite surprised that they've decided to make a new 'TAG Heuer' Monaco Gulf, it seems contrary to the whole idea that the Gulf is tied up with the whole Steve McQueen thing (which obviously makes more sense being Heuer branded). But what I really want to talk about is that '60', or more to the point 'Time & Tide's' claim that the '60' represents some sort of tribute to the number on the iconic Gulf Porsche racing cars.
Do you think TAG Heuer told them that or did they make it up themselves? Cos I couldn't find a picture of a Gulf Porsche with a '60' on it, so I asked the THF Forum's resident Gulf expert and he told me it was a crock of shit.
JIM: Well before I heard this I had not put one single thought into if the 60 had a meaning or not! I just saw it and thought it was a cool detail. But I mean, if TAG told the media it has historical meaning and it does not, that is kind of awkward indeed.
Have to say though that it looks extremely nice this one. The deep sunburst blue reminds me of the mighty Gulf King (CAW211T)! If it wasn't so ridiculously expensive I would consider buying it, no doubt.
Non Heuer logo yes. Do you think this is yet another sign that TAG is removing the 'Heuer' products from the catalogue? I heard the CAW211R is now discontinued, which leaves just one Heuer product in the current line-up. Honestly, I think this is a strategical mistake from TAG Heuer's side, I do believe their brand can profit in the long term if they keep some sort of heritage section within their offerings. What are your thoughts on that?
ROB: I agree the new Gulf Monaco is rather attractive, but I do think that '60' looks a bit out of place. I don't know why particularly, but I think a mirror polished '12' would have looked better, especially since the 'justification' appears to be a load of baloney*.
As far as the 'Heuer' thing goes, I can only assume that while the 'Heuer' brand may pull on the heartstrings of the watch enthusiasts on the forums, they represent a very small percentage of TAG Heuer's overall customer base. Perhaps the brand feel that rather than helping them keep in touch with those 'enthusiasts' it is becoming a little bit of a hinderance? We've had quite a few limited edition 'heritage' Carreras now and they seem to be taking longer and longer to sell out, even the watch many claimed as the best modern Heuer (the silver 160th Anniversary Carrera) was still available over a year after release..
Of course I could be very wrong, but perhaps we are finally seeing the end of the retro watch craze, I mean it's been going on for ten years or so. Perhaps there simply isn't anything left in the archives that's 'substantial' enough to warrant re-release? Sure there is a responsibility to maintain the heritage, but ultimately the main aim of the business is to make money. I don't know, but it feels like maybe the industry as a whole is starting to think about moving away from 're-issues' a little bit, and switching to a more 'inspired by the past' aesthetic.
And TAG Heuer with their in-house Heuer 02 Monaco, it seems like they would like to tone down the connection to Steve McQueen and all that a little bit and reposition the Monaco as a modern square watch (very on trend at the moment let's not forget) for everyone and not just aging watch geeks on forums.
On the other hand I could be completely off-target there; the Carrera is 60 years old next year, so I'm sure there's going to be something pretty big coming... maybe a Heuer 02T Carrera Heritage Panda Glassbox in Tiffany blue?
JIM: Wow, the end of the retro watch craze, is that the final conclusion we draw from TAG Heuer at Watches & Wonders 2022? It would make sense, but I feel some brands will take another five to ten years before they dare not relying only on designs from the past. What will eventually remain of a brand in ten, 20 or 30 years that have only released copies of watches from the 60's and 70's? Eventually people would lose interest.
So one final question! Was there something you would have wanted TAG Heuer to present, that you felt missing from their W&W line-up?
ROB: Ooh, good one.... not really. But there's certain areas where I wonder what on Earth is going on, like with the Link for example, and there's still no ladies Formula 1 in the range. Is it coming back, is it dead? It seems awfully strange not to cater for half the population at the entry level stage.
What about you, was there something you were hoping for...?
JIM: Well you gonna hate me for saying it, but I wish they would spice up the Aquaracer series with many many nice colours. I'm talking yellow, red, purple, tiffany kind of turquoise, lime green and other bold colours for both the 200 and 300 series! Bright and bold colours are fun and I think the watch market in general could use more fun. So I will remain hopeful that the orange dial is the first of many cool dials we will see in the next couple of years.
ROB: Well it seems like everyone else is doing that and we already know there's some purple coming down the track, so maybe next year you will get your wish!
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EDITOR'S NOTE: *Regarding the number '60' on the Gulf Monaco, it seems that what TAG Heuer meant (and what Time & Tide completely misunderstood) was that the font used for the '60' was reminiscent of the 'font' used on the 1970's Gulf Porsches for the racing numbers, not the actual number '60' itself...
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