FEATURE: Is the Black Bay 58 the Perfect Watch? by Charlie M (aka 'Imagwai')

 

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The Tudor Black Bay 58 has become something of a 'meme' over the last year or so, such is it's popularity with the members of the TH Forums. Personally, as a tunnel-visioned TAGeristi I don't really see what all the fuss is about, but Charlie M (known to many of you as Imagwai) thinks differently and today he poses the burning question...

 

IS THE BLACK BAY 58 THE PERFECT WATCH?

Could the Black Bay 58 be the perfect watch? Obviously there is some subjectivity in answering a question like that, and if like Rob, you don’t much care for the styling, or if David Beckham irritates you, then you may have already stopped reading. You may also have seen some of the countless fawning articles and forum posts praising this watch and think I’m jumping on the bandwagon with what I’m about to say. But that bandwagon passed by quite a long time ago. Truth be told, it’s only now, about two and a half years since I bought it, that I am really falling for this watch in a big way. I’ll explain that a bit more in a moment, but first let’s take a look at some of the logical reasons why this watch is so perfect…

FIRST IMPRESSIONS: Tudor Pelagos 39 200M Automatic Watch

 

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Of all the non-TAG Heuer watches I have the closest affinity with, number one is probably the Tudor Pelagos LHD. This is almost entirely because my good friend Rich owns one and as such I have seen and handled this watch quite a bit over the last few years. It is not without it's faults; I'm not 'crazy' about the red/black date wheel and the (admittedly clever) clasp is a bit weird, but overall I like it a lot and it is pretty much the only watch in the world with fauxtina that doesn't make me want to puke in a bucket. 

But of course an awful lot of people wanted the Tudor Pelagos in a smaller size and so there is understandable excitement for the release of this 39mm variant. I don't doubt for a second that this will sell like hot cakes, indeed I'm sure the waiting lists are already growing since as ever these days Tudor will have done a thoroughly terrible job of providing adequate inventory on release. But then of course we all know a lack of stock only feeds the hype; nothing makes a watch enthusiast crave a watch like being told they can't have one after all...

VIDEO: This or That Pepsi GMT (TAG Heuer Aquaracer V Tudor Black Bay) by Brent L Miller Time

 

BUYING EXPERIENCE: Tudor Black Bay 58 Automatic Watch (featuring Jim Dollares)

Hi everyone, Jim Dollares here! You might wonder why the TAG Heuer Enthusiast blog posts a Tudor 'Buying Experience' today? Well, this one is as much about the Aquaracer, as it is about the Tudor Black Bay 58... 

Buying Experience: The Time I Almost Bought the Aquaracer!

Background

Going back four or five years when my obsession with watches started, the TAG Heuer Aquaracer was one of the watches I admired the most. I remember one of my first watch loves to be the WAY211B with its superb combination of blue and black, paired with a super comfortable and stylish strap. Since then the Aquaracer has always stuck in the back of my head and I knew that one day I would get one. 

Fast forward to 2021 and I decided I was ready to pull the trigger on another watch and this time I was going to get myself a nice proper dive watch. I enjoyed summer but was missing a good piece to just wear and not worry about and I was now pretty sure that the sexy looking blue dial 41mm aluminum bezel Aquaracer (WBD2112) should be the one. I was also feeling a bit stressed since TAG Heuer had recently launched a new version of the Aquaracer and time was running out to get the one I truly wanted: the previous generation has always been the absolute best Aquaracer in my opinion and the thought of buying a pre-owned version with all the super fakes around now gives me nightmares! 

ON THE WRIST: Tudor Black Bay Automatic Watch

 

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Goldsmiths / Milton Keynes, 13th September 2021

So some of you saw a version of this post on Friday morning, before I took it down and replaced it with the 'Timeline of TAG Heuer Production'. The reason for this was that somehow, I thought I had tried on a Black Bay 58 and it seems that what I actually tried on was a normal 41mm Black Bay. Bizarrely I somehow managed to get all the details right, and every single picture I used was also the watch that I tried on, but none of them were a Black Bay 58.

I now know that the easy way to tell the difference is that the Black Bay 58 has a gilt bezel whereas the original Black Bay does not, and of course it is 2mm smaller. Honestly I don't think it would make a lot of difference to my opinion, though it does appear from photographs that the gilt numbers on the bezel do liven it up a bit. 

But still, I couldn't leave a post up that was clearly wrong in every way (except that one that matters) and so I decided to rewrite it...

It's been a long time since I tried on a Black Bay (of any kind) and on this shopping trip I had already decided (since there wasn't that much new TAG Heuer available) that I would try out some different watches to spice things up. So on this day I also tried out a Bell and Ross BR-05 and a Brietling Pro Endurance Super Quartz, both of which will be reviewed at a later date.

FEATURE: Is the Tudor Black Bay becoming a 'Problem'?

 

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This post was originally going to be called 'How to React When Your Friend Buys a Watch You Don't Really Like That Much!'... but the more I thought about it, the more I came to the conclusion that it's clearly me who's out of step when it comes to the Tudor Black Bay and I wonder if it isn't starting to become a little bit of a problem for TAG Heuer?

So we all know the problems one encounters when trying to purchase pretty much any stainless steel Rolex 'sports' watch, and it can't have escaped your attention that this has really played into Tudor's hands. While technically they may be more 'independent' than they once were, that distinction hasn't really bled through to the public consciousness and the brand is still seen (and most likely promoted within stores) as the baby, or 'accessible' if you prefer, Rolex.

FEATURE: Watches & Wonders 2021 (Part 1: IWC, Tudor and Breitling)

 

Remember how last year the watch companies all said "Watch shows are old hat, we don't need a watch show anymore... everything is virtual and online. We have social media, we don't need a huge, expensive show to sell our products. We will launch everything on our own terms via the internet cos all the kids are on there and screw those Baselworld guys." 

Well, it didn't take above a couple of months for talk of a new show to start and this year we got the first episode of 'Watches and Wonders'. Due to the continuing pandemic of course this year's 'show' was virtual, but the intention is to make it a physical show as soon as it is feasible to do so. So maybe watch shows aren't 'old hat' after all...? Quelle surprise! After all, rich people can't show up to a virtual show in their Ferraris / helicopters and schmooze with their equally rich buddies can they? 

It was dumb to think that a luxury product can exist solely online; who really want's to buy their Lamborghini or their Richard Mille from a website? But let's be honest it was more about cutting out the Baselworld people and taking back control of the fair than ever taking the show to a virtual place, that was just a temporary and convenient argument for the mutiny.

So along with our Swedish friend Jim Dollares, I thought it would be good to at least take a (somewhat irreverent it must be said) look at some of the more interesting things to come out of the inaugural Watches and Wonders show.. so let's do that. 

We started on a wrong foot as Jim's first reaction was not overly positive:

JIM: Man this whole digital watch fair seems to be just a big mess of 'everyone releasing a ton of stuff at the same time'. Is there even a proper way to "attend" the fair, I couldn't even find a schedule on their website?

ROB: Yes, that is a major failing isn't it. Surely there should have been some kind of order of business where the brands all got together and organised themselves so they weren't all dumping their new pieces at once. Typical, even when they take control of the 'show' they still can't get it right.... and Breitling didn't even pay to be a part of it, they just released their new watches at the same time and the press just 'assumed' it was part of the show - hahahahaha. Good on them! 

ROB: Okay let's start with this IWC Top Gun Mojave Desert 'limited production' do-da. I'm not really a fan of IWC at the best of times, but these are quite eye catching. Apparently 'limited production' varies from limited edition in that there is no set number of watches in total, but they will only make a certain number of pieces each year...

JIM: Oh yes you know I do love IWC and they just keep getting better and better. This year's homerun, this far, for IWC in my eyes is not the Mojave editions though, it is the smaller standard pilot chronograph with blue sunburst and 41 mm case. I have always loved the pilot chrono but thought it was too big. Now it is something I think I could actually wear and enjoy!

ROB: That watch is very nice, it reminds me of those 'timeless' looking Calibre 16 Carreras that I rave about occasionally... and which would be a lot more affordable, obviously.

JIM: Yes yes that's true but, with the IWC you get a completely different level of refinement. An IWC movement that will give such pleasure and satisfaction in soul and mind when you operate it. A pilot from IWC has long been on my wish list and contrary to some other brands they just keep improving and do things that suit my preferences.

ROB: What do you think of that sandy finish on the Mojave? I'm really not sure at all.... seems like something you would get tired of eventually and wish it was just black.

JIM: I think it is very cool but I agree, this feels like something aimed towards people who already have a handful of Big Pilots and looking to spend between £15-35k on a watch they can wear a couple of times a year to look cool and enjoy something fun. Probably not something anyone buys as his first big pilot, or first IWC for that matter.

ROB: Oh this Tudor looks cool, I really like the green and gold combination. Kinda like an upmarket version of the Harrods Black Bay.

JIM: Yes solid gold case with a green dial is a superb combo. One thing I dislike about all Rolex and Tudor marketing though is how falsely they mislead you by showing their products without a ton of crystal reflections. All these release photos and renders look as if Tudor uses anti-reflective coating but in reality the crystal works as a mirror of constant reflections. Did you see the silver case BB58? Is silver a good material for a case? Won't it scratch like a motherf*cker?

ROB: Maybe... won't it tarnish as well? All my wife's silver jewellery gets that brown tint to it that you have to clean off with a special cloth, lovely!

JIM: Oh yes! Didn't even think of that! Well I guess you can do as old ladies do with their silverware, putting it in a bowl with water and salt or something and soon it looks brand new again. Seems perfect for a watch. But I think that the online community will soon learn that this is charming, similar to that it is apparently charming when your bronze watch turns into something that looks like you found it in a dumpster.

ROB: Oh apparently Tudor have discovered a way to stop it turning brown.... but then I just saw Tim Mosso questioning that in a WatchBox video, saying no one has managed to do that in hundreds of years, so I guess we'll see!

JIM: Isn't it strange that Tudor releases a solid gold diver sold for £12k? The distinction between Tudor and Rolex gets more blurry. Sure, a solid gold diver from Rolex is obviously more expensive but it gets a bit weird to say that Tudor is affordable. Everything comes down to perspective I suppose. Do you really like the gold and green? I am not a fan actually. I have two major concerns with it. First of all, a gold watch should be polished. I think this one from Tudor has no polished sides or anything on the case. Secondly the caseback gives me nightmares. A display caseback on a watch that has what might be one of the ugliest watch movements developed in modern times. I mean look at it. Would you pay £12k for that cheap looking thing?

ROB: No, of course not... seems like everyone is picking up on the fact that the display caseback is simply a cheap option since sapphire is a lot cheaper than gold. I guess it's a bronze/green Autavia for me then, not that I was ever going to go off brand of course.

JIM: One thing I really like from Tudor this year is, obviously, the Black Bay 36 with a stunning sunburst silver dial. The only thing I am negotiating with myself right now though is if it is really worth driving the 250 km, one way, to the closest AD to see it in person. 

ROB: But this is clearly meant for women, no?

JIM: Perfect for me and my girly wrist then. Are you a fan of the Black Bay 36 line?

ROB: Ummm, I'd never really thought about it... you know I don't really take much notice of anything that isn't TAG Heuer. So is it just about the silver dial?

JIM: Noooo its a lot more than just that. I tried this watch both in 36 and 41, I think it was in 2019 and since then the 36 has been in the back of my mind. I remember that the applied indices looked perfect on a dial that is very well balanced. The case looked great, bracelet wore nicely. The whole experience of putting that watch on wrist was a pleasure. You know when you try a watch and it just clicks. It felt luxurious but in a discrete way. I remember thinking something like "wow this is a premium watch, I cant believe it doesn't cost more". And now Tudor made it even more perfect with a silver dial!

ROB: Well now that you've told me they make it in 41mm it makes more sense. But wait, the Black Bay 36 is 36mm, the Black Bay 41 is 41mm but the Black Bay 58 is 39mm or 41mm but looks completely different? That makes a whole lot of sense doesn't it?

JIM: No no, the Black Bay 58 is only available in 39 mm. The Black Bay is 41. And the Black Bay 41 is also 41 mm. But the Black Bay in bronze is 43. You are right, the naming of these models doesn't make full sense. Many watch brands do have a nice way of aiming to confuse their customers though, why should Tudor be any different?

ROB: So why didn't they call the Black Bay 58 the Black Bay 39? Oh, never mind...

ROB: Now, I know you have this kinda weird love/hate relationship with Breitling and I'm sorry but I feel like we have to talk about this.... thing. I can't quite believe this exists. What the hell kind of colour is that green? It's absolutely dreadful. I know people will say 'Oh yes, they made this in 1942' and it was the colour of XYZ Bomber Squadron and all that, but a hideous colour is a hideous colour. BMW and Mercedes made beige cars in the 80s but you don't see them bringing them out again as 'heritage' pieces do you? God, how do Breitling make something as cool as the Endurance Pro and then dump this on us? Seriously...

JIM: Dude, I love the comparison with beige cars in the 80's, spot on! This shade of green ain't my cup of tea at all... it is... I don't know, difficult to even find a word that describes it. I don't think it is obviously ugly nor something I hate. It just doesn't do anything for me. Is there anything in the world we can think of that has this odd colour? I cant think of anything!

ROB: Me neither, let's sleep on it and see if anything comes to mind. Do you want to talk about Panerai?

JIM: No.

ROB: Me neither...

PART 2 of Watches and Wonders 2021 will follow on Thursday...

FIRST IMPRESSIONS: Tudor Black Bay Fifty Eight Navy Blue Edition

No, you haven't come to the wrong place... we live in strange times and usually by July I would have been somewhere; perhaps London, Manchester or Sheffield and tried some watches on and maybe not every single one of them would have been a TAG Heuer. After all, I have previously written about such varied brands as Breitling, Cartier, Ulysse Nardin and even Roger Dubuis (still by far the most expensive watch I've written about at over £160,000!) and since Tudor is for sure one of TAG Heuer's main competitors this watch is likely of interest to at least some of my readers.

Now, to be honest, I'm not a massive fan of Tudor. My friend has the Pelagos and that is far and away the Tudor I would buy if I was gong to buy one, if only for the amazing lumed bezel. Aside from that though, they don't really do it for me. I tried on the North Flag a couple of times, but it's a very strange watch. I like its bold design, but on the wrist it feels very odd - and my Pelagos owning friend came to exactly the same conclusion.

The only other Tudor that I like at all is the Harrods edition Black Bay. Which is very specific I know... but unlike seemingly everyone and their dog, I haven't really fallen for the charms of the Black Bay. It's a bit too retro for me, a bit too old school, which is of course why everyone else likes it. It's an affordable 'Submariner' for people who want a vintage Rolex, with enough of a connection to make it 'authentic' at a relatively affordable price.

In short, it's a winner... and Tudor have been milking it relentlessly over the last few years, sometimes more successfully than others it has to be said; for example, sticking a chronograph in it was a terrible idea, especially when your hour hand is the size of a dinner plate and covers up the subdials... best to stick with nice colours, like the aforementioned Harrods piece, one that was trading well over list for quite a while I noticed.

A couple of years ago Tudor made a 'Bucherer' Special Edition Black Bay which was primarily blue with gold trimmings and it was definitely the nicest Black Bay I'd seen up until that point. The only downside was that it came on a NATO strap and I cannot abide them. I know a lot of people love them, but all that spare strap sticking out here there and everywhere and those awful sticky-out strap retaining bars... I could have had a camouflage Aquaracer if I wanted all that nonsense! Thankfully, this new 'Navy Blue' Black Bay is available on a choice of straps and a bracelet, including a NATO and a rather nifty looking 'soft touch' strap with a deployment clasp. 

I think the reason this one caught my eye this morning when Beaverbrooks sent me an email, was that somehow in blue (and particularly on this strap) the Black Bay looks a little more modern. Indeed I had to look at it for a second to figure out if it was a Pelagos or a Black Bay, so tied is the Tudor Pelagos to the blue colour scheme. Admittedly I'm not so fussed about one of the Black Bay Fifty Eight's main selling points, that being it's reduced case size of 39mm. Personally I'd be quite happy with a 42mm case, but to be fair I haven't tried on a Fifty Eight so maybe I don't know what I'm missing?

On the soft touch or NATO straps this model is retailing at £2520 and on a bracelet it sells out at £2760. You'll have to be quick though as it seems like this is one that's going to be hard to get and only seems to be available in stores (not online). Perhaps Tudor are taking a leaf out of the TAG Heuer book of how to sell watches in a tough economic climate?

To be fair, it seems very well priced. For a start it's a certified chronometer version of Tudor's in house MT5402 that features a power reserve of 70 hours. Added to that you have a domed sapphire crystal (which some people get awfully excited about) a 200M water resistance rating and that all important Tudor/Rolex 'residual-value' fuzzy feeling.

Granted I'm not about to start buying Tudors but if I did, this one would rank quite highly on my list of potential possibilities. I'm pretty sure that ultimately I'd still end up going for a Pelagos, my only real dilemma would be choosing between the blue and the black colour schemes!

ON THE WRIST: Tudor Black Bay Pepsi GMT

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Harrods / London, 9th March 2019

This was something I'd pretty much forgotten about to be honest, the Tudor range as a whole doesn't do much for me (the Pelagos is the only Tudor I would buy) but my friend Rich is more into it. I can't remember exactly how this came about, I remember we were looking at a couple of Zeniths and talking with Harry (I think his name was, nice chap) in Harrods and we got on to the subject of the Harrods special editions and the Tudor Black Bay GMT (it's all coming back to me now).

Tudor Black Bay 'Harrods' Numbered Edition

Harry told us that those two models were the hottest tickets for them, and that they get maybe 15 phone calls a day about them. I was curious as to how, given there was a waiting list for the Harrods Black Bay that they had two on display. Apparently they are owned by Harrods and used by management for functions etc, and otherwise used as display models.

While I'm not a fan of the Black Bay in general, I do rather like the Harrods model, the green bezel really sets it apart and they've selected just the right tone of green (unlike Bvlgari and Roger Dubuis, both of whom completely screwed their models up in my opinion. Roger Dubuis had two different greens on his watch and neither of them was even close to being correct!). I think it's massively important that they got this right as that green is a Harrods calling card and when you see this Black Bay you instantly know what it is and what it represents. Unlike some other brands - including TAG Heuer's white dial 'Harrods' Autavia.

But I think I have spoken about this watch before, so let's concentrate on the Tudor Black Bay GMT.

As you probably know, the watch was released to a great kerfuffle at last year's Baselworld show, right around the same time as Rolex released their new Pepsi bezel GMT. People were aghast, what on Earth where they thinking stealing some of Rolex's thunder? Well, you know what? They really didn't. Rolex Pepsi on a Jubilee bracelet is trading well over list price thanks to Rolex's draconian control and manipulation of the market, but then you can't just walk into a shop and buy a Tudor Pepsi either!

Let's be clear, this watch wasn't on display, it was under the counter and we weren't allowed to remove the film covering the dial (Harry peeled it back for us about half-way so we could see the colour of the bezel properly, but that was as far as he would go). I'm not sure if this watch was for sale or if it was put by for someone. It seems the waiting list for the bracelet version of the watch is so long that people are resorting to buying the watch on this (fairly hideous) brown leather strap and then presumably finding a bracelet elsewhere and switching it out.

Before I continue, I know in the past I have been very scathing about brown leather straps and often it was meant in jest. I know some people didn't like it, and that's fair enough. But this strap... it's not very nice (in my opinion) but more importantly, it really doesn't go with the watch. You have a black dial, a very dark red, a very dark blue and they've matched it with a sort of reddy-brown strap. Surely a black strap would have been better? Look at that picture above, I don't like NATOs, but I would take the black NATO over that brown strap any day of the week.

The Tudor GMT on the brown leather strap costs £2570, which is about £200 less than the bracelet version. You can probably get one in a month or two, whereas the bracelet is probably more like 6 months. Harry did tell me that if you order from Harrods your name goes on the list and you will be supplied in order, they don't allow queue jumping for special customers. Do I believe that? Not entirely sure. I'd like to believe it... but knowing what kind of dubious shenanigans Rolex are capable of, I think I'd take it with a tiny grain of salt.

Ignoring the strap then, I was quite surprised how dark the colours on the bezel actually are. Not that the photographs are misleading, I think it's more that I'm used to seeing the brighter red and blue on the Aquaracer Calibre 7 and also on the Rolex Pepsi (not that I've actually seen a 2018 Rolex Pepsi - obviously!), so that was surprising. Other than that it looks kinda small, it's 41mm but it wears smaller than that I'd say.

Obviously I was slightly hindered by the film, but I really didn't think the dial looked that nice close up, it definitely looks more impressive in these photographs. I'm really not a retro kinda guy and I'm definitely not a Rolex kinda guy, so a lot of this is perhaps lost on me, but from a purely objective point of view it didn't 'impress' me that much at all. It just didn't strike me as being anything 'special' somehow, irrespective of whether it appeals to me (and there are plenty of watches I can appreciate without actually liking).

I'd really to see the watch on a bracelet actually, I think it might look a lot better overall, but as it stands I was even more underwhelmed by this than the Seiko diver I tried on about an hour prior. I think it's partly because the bezel looks more modern than the dial, and on the strap it emphasises the retro dial too much, so it looks a bit odd. I know Pepsi bezels have been around for a long time, but it's the execution, and maybe the font on the bezel? I'm not sure... something doesn't quite work somehow, but again I think it might work on the bracelet.

Hopefully at some point in the future the watch will appear in the stores and I'll finally be able to find out. In the meantime I think if I was going to sign my name on a waiting list for a Black Bay, I think I'd still be choosing the Harrods edition.