I thought we'd take a break from the W&W/C.O.C.O. scores (still a few left to do and now the green Aquaracer has come out too!), so today I invited our very special Swedish contributor Jim Dollares to join me in casting a critical glance over the new releases at W&W and of course we had to start with TAG Heuer. Part two is in the works, but for now let's take a irreverential look at what our favourite watch brand brought to Geneva this year.
ROB: Hej Jimbo!
JIM: Hey Rob! Good to hear from you. I have landed in my opinions on this year's Watches and Wonders and I think we have some awesome releases to talk about. How about kicking things off with something that perhaps is not the most awesome thing this year, the Plasma tourbillion?
JIM: Attractive it is not! My main concern is that the diamonds look to be just randomly placed. I think the whole package would look better if this one was put on a strap of some kind. Perhaps a brown nicely made leather strap? I must say though that I do appreciate that TAG does these kind of crazy things for insane prices, it makes the whole brand so much cooler in my eyes. I respect and like the brand even more, knowing they have the capability to do high end things too. One thing I wish they could do with these fake lab grown diamonds though, would be to make a rainbow version of some model, like the Aquaracer or Carrera Elegant.
ROB: I think the randomness is part of the.... er, 'design' though, isn't it? Showing they can fit them to any contour and shape. But even so, I agree the randomness doesn't please the eye like a more structured arrangement of diamonds tends to, and then there's the price. 500,000CHF according to A Blog to Watch. Surely this is the most expensive TAG Heuer ever made. Even some of the super-complicated watches of a decade ago were only up to about £200-250,000 IIRC.
Okay let's move on to something slightly more affordable, and yet still kind of expensive... the new Aquaracer two-tone and solid gold models. I know you fuggin love these so go on... tell me again why those fumé dials suck.
JIM: You know I respect you but about these fumé style dials it is important to stress that you are very wrong. These Aquaracer 200's would be a lot nicer if they had normal, brighter coloured dials. On the other hand it might be me who has a brain failure in this opinion because I see many people online who seem to love the fume style, just like you. Anyhow, despite the dials I have to say I am super excited about these gold releases. I can definitely see myself picking up the blue and yellow gold two-tone version. The solid gold divers are so cool too, don't you think? Is there anything more baller than a diver in solid gold?
ROB: I wouldn't say I 'love' the fumé dials exactly... but I don't find them problematic like you do. What I do find problematic is the pricing. I just don't understand how the gold bezel insert and crown adds £1900 to the price. (£4100 v £2500 for the plain steel). Am I missing something? Is gold really that expensive these days?
JIM: Yes good question about the gold, I doubt the premium in price reflects the actual value in gold but who knows? As always it comes down to the perceived value and for once when I saw the price I felt I would consider buying it for this price. Knowing it is solid gold details rather than plating makes it worth it in my book. Hopefully a used one in nice condition will pop up from a trustworthy seller in a few years and I might add it to my three piece watch collection. I kind of wish these would all be available with bracelets too. The two-tone versions would look even nicer with a two-tone bracelet.
ROB: You would imagine they would make them on bracelets eventually, but then again there doesn't seem to be any headroom for the RRP. Is anyone really going to pay nearly £5000 for a Two-Tone Calibre 5 Aquaracer? Also, I'm afraid I have one HUGE gripe about the full gold models... well, almost full gold - why the hell did they give them black crowns? It looks absolutely dreadful on the blue one in particular... so cheap. They took em off the old Gulf F1 and put them on here, really?
JIM: Haha yes the black crowns. I have not made up my mind about them. Well, I am not bothered by them. I can live with it. Really makes you wonder if it was an actual design choice or if they did it to cut cost.
ROB: You can't say they did it to cut cost on a £16,000 watch, that's ludicrous. Just charge another £500 if that's the case (if a gold crown costs that much).
JIM: I guess so. This means there was a team of designers who decided that there should be a black crown because it looks so darn good.
ROB: Then they should be fired immediately.
ROB: Oh, I think you'll find they 'collaborated' on the movement and AMT are building it for them, does that make it in house? I don't know, I find the whole in-house thing very confusing and pointless. People hate on the Heuer 01 because it was originally bought from Seiko and then redesigned (see 'this article' for more on that), but I really couldn't care less, it works perfectly, and winds beautifully... as I would expect from the Japanese. Hahaha.
JIM: Yes for sure! And my problem is not that it is made by Sellita through AMT, it is the false marketing of the term and what conclusions consumers draw from seeing 'in-house' in the product description. If I didn't know better I would also assume it means TAG Heuer makes this movement in their own factory. A more honest solution would be to describe the movement as high end, produced in partnership with AMT to bring you state of the art, modern movement technology with 80h power reserve.
ROB: Yeah, but let's not pretend it's just TAG Heuer doing it. I believe IWC are charging £11,000 for an ETA 2824 in their new Ingenieur (though I'm basing that solely on a meme I saw on Instagram so it could be bullshit)..
JIM: Not entirely correct, IWC and many other Richemont brands use movements from Val Fleurier, misleadingly calling them 'manufacture' or 'in-house'. I believe Richemont owns Val Fleurier and some critique comes from the movements sometimes being very similar to ETA in their architecture. But yes you are correct that most Swiss are very misleading in their marketing.
PHOTO: Maxine @ TAG Heuer (Sheffield)
ROB: I think the new 36mm Carreras look good, but the idea that they are in any way unisex confuses me. But I understand that I am a dinosaur and out of touch with the latest 'gender fluid' trends. Still, having seen an actual photo, taken in an actual boutique, I worry it won't be quite as bright and bold as we think, but I guess we won't really know for sure until we can see one with our own eyes.
JIM: Well no matter what you have or do not have between your legs, I just really like what I am seeing this far. Would I prefer if TAG had some guts to do bright colours like this in man sizes too? Yes, obviously. But perhaps this is a sign of small steps towards a brighter TAG catalogue in the future! Do you think I could pull off wearing one of these? Size wise I mean.
ROB: Mmm, I'm not sure. The 36mm Aquaracer was too small for you, but... this has a much thinner bezel so the dial will be bigger. May be worth a try. I don't have any objection to wearing a pink dial myself, but I'd want it bigger anyway (I don't think any 36mm Carrera would be big enough for me), maybe if they did it in the 39mm that would be okay. What about the mint green and gold, that looks a bit less feminine, although I'd still assume it was a ladies watch if I didn't know the size...
JIM: You'd want to have it bigger huh? I bet you do. Mint green you say? You know what I thought when I saw renders of that one? Freaking pistachio. Look at it again with pistachio in mind. And with that said, no I ain't a fan! But the blue and gold indices one is pretty sweet but for some reason I find it more feminine than the pink! Crazy! Anyway, I have one thing on my Watches & Wonders to do list, trying on a 36mm Carrera. And you being such a fan of big things, are you going to try on the reverse panda black dial sort of glassbox 39mm?
ROB: Well yes of course I will have to in the name of research I suppose. Unless I find a blue one first...
ROB: Isn't it crazy how different those two watches look? One looks old and fusty and the other looks a little more fresh and blue. I knew the COCO would score the black one high, they see a reverse panda and all logic goes out of the window.
JIM: Yeah they look a whole lot different for sure. But I actually prefer the black. I am still a bit on the fence about both, while also feeling that I will soften eventually and probably really like these in a year or two. The case is cool and interesting, I am curious to inspect it in person and feel how it wears. Biggest plus of these new Carrera glassboxes is probably the upgraded H02, now called TH20 I believe, I read the rotor no longer spins like a lunatic. Do we call these new models glassboxes by the way? I thought the CBK's were the glassboxes, what are these new ones?
ROB: I don't know, maybe they will continue the glassbox name... cos they still seem to be kind of the same thing. But I don't know about this idea of having the bezel under the glass, it seems a bit weird to me. Especially when it's all curvy, I think that looks better on the blue because it gives a more modern vibe... I'm not sure the modern curvy bezel goes with the 1960s vibin' reverse panda with the fauxtina hands.
JIM: Many collectors seem to be concerned about the bezel under the crystal but I think most will get used to it and come to appreciate it. Oh, by the way, isn't it also great to see that most of the really old men who normally only buy Heuer branded old looking watches actually seem to appreciate these new models, with the superior TAG Heuer badge? That in itself is a huge win for TAG this year.
ROB: Haha, yes... but that's it you see, all they ever needed to do was give them a reverse panda. They are simple people, all they wanted was a reverse panda in a 'nobleman's' size and they'd be happy. Maybe finally all the 'Heuer' nonsense can be put to bed, they've done all the re-issues they need to and they are out there, let's finally embrace the 21st century.
ROB: Speaking of which, the new 42mm Elegant Carreras look pretty funky, eh? The renders and photos look pretty flat but I saw a video on Instagram the other day and I was very impressed!
JIM: Yes these are absolutely great! First time for me to like one of these and suddenly I see a lot of potential for the 42mm line-up. Just a perfect amount of colour, very well executed. Do you know if these have the upgraded movement too?
ROB: Nah it seems to be just the same old Heuer 02. The only downsides for me really are the odd running seconds dial, which looks even more odd with the alternately coloured markers... and of course the £5000 price tag. But leaving that aside, this looks cool and it's nice to see the 'Elegant' line expanding with some less 'Elegant' watches... makes total sense right? I can just imagine some tool putting it on an orange strap though. They wear smaller than 42mm too, so people who think they will be too big should give them a go. Same goes for the 44mm Sport Carrera too - wears more like a 42mm because of the short lugs, but they are quite chunky.
JIM: Well now when you say it, it is kind of stupid to call these elegant because these colourful ones sure ain't elegant. A very good idea about an orange strap, I think it would work excellent on this one!
ROB: But of course...
JIM: How are consumers supposed to make sense of the current movement djungle in TAG's catalogue? The calibre 5, the Heuer02, the TH31, the calibre 7, the TH20, the calibre 11...
ROB: Yeah, it's a mess isn't it. And are we supposed to call them Calibre TH20-00 or just TH20-00? Obviously you have to call the Calibre 5 a Calibre 5, otherwise it would just be '5' and we can't call it that. I think, you know... obviously there are periods when things change and you can see eventual clarity, but as it is we have the Calibre 5, 7, 9 and 16 and then we have the TH31-00, TH30-00 and TH20-00. Plus the Heuer 02 too.. I mean I kinda thought everything would eventually be replaced with movements called 'Heuer 0-something' as and when they made them. But now it seems not. I don't honestly know why they called the movements Heuer 01 and Heuer 02 anyway. Why weren't they called TH01 and TH02? Why perpetuate the 'Heuer' name? Maybe that's why the movement names are changing? Freddie is determined to stop this nonsense once and for all?
JIM: You are probably right, long-term all of these horological engines will probably be named 'THXX' something. But now I am already bored talking about boring elegant Carreras. I want your opinion on the not very boring new Gulf Formula 1 model?
ROB: Yes, this is good. I like it. Much better than the previous model with the crappy black pushers and crown - we know where they went don't we? So now we have steel which makes it look more expensive, which is probably just as well since this watch is.... (deep breath) ...£2050. I think that's going to be a stumbling block for a lot of people, mentally adjusting to paying over £2000 for a quartz chronograph. But hey, I like that they've done away with the white subdials, I think it has enough going on with the stripes. But that '1' does look a little bit odd perched between the two stripes, I don't really know what they could have done about that, I mean all watch designs generally have compromises somewhere... but I have to say I never noticed that on the previous model.
JIM: I like it a lot, agree this one is so much better than the previous one. If I didn't already have my beloved Red Bull edition, I would be seriously tempted to aim for this one to be my next purchase. Agree about the pricing but funny how the mind works. Seeing the crazy prices on these new Formula 1's makes me smile and think that I got such a bargain deal when I bought mine in 2018.
ROB: Well that's one way to look at it I suppose, very glass half full - hahaha. You know, when I was looking at it earlier, I was thinking... it's quite nice, but it ain't as nice as your Red Bull F1. That remains a high benchmark for all other F1 quartz chronos to aspire to.
JIM: Sure does, I think any intelligent watch collector acknowledges that I have the best Formula 1 model ever manufactured in the history of TAG Heuer.
ROB: Indeed, certainly the best quartz chronograph at any rate. So, okay... now we come to the final WATCHES AND WONDERS 2023 release for TAG Heuer, and it's one that seems to have slipped under the radar somewhat.... it's the 42mm 'Glassbox' Carrera Elegant Heuer 02T Tourbillon... I have to say, my first thought is that for twenty thousand smackeroonies, that strap looks a bit boring.
JIM: This is so interesting. We've been saying for years they should put the tourbillion in a smaller case, and now when they did no one seems to really care. Maybe you're right, the thing is just too boring. Makes me wonder, would it have been a package making more sense if it was a solid gold case, alligator strap and an eye grabbing dial? I mean, at that level, does it matter if it costs 35k instead of 20? Although, at the same time I know the strategy for TAG has been to offer a cheap, mass produced, robot made tourbillion so from that perspective this new piece makes total sense. I don't really have more to say about this one I'm afraid.
ROB: No me neither, I just don't really have that much interest.... to be honest, if I was going to buy a tourbillon I'd rather have the skeleton dial one anyway. But I guess if the strategy was to offer a less in-your-face and elegant option, well I think we can agree they've achieved that.
JIM: Before we go back to our ordinary lives drinking whisky and cheap soda, how would you summarise TAG's contribution to Watches n Wonders this year? I have a feeling you are somewhat disappointed, while I've been impressed with the hot fire of genius added to the TAG Heuer catalogue.
ROB: Well, yeah... to be honest I think you're right. I guess last year was pretty dramatic so I was expecting a lot and it was kinda lukewarm. So yeah, all in all, 2023 wasn't a classic W&W for TAG Heuer was it? Good thing we still have all the other brands to discuss!
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