Today we welcome back to the TAG Heuer Enthusiast perhaps the greatest salesman in Europe, for he is the only man alive who could 'almost' make me want to buy a TAG Heuer Connected... thank God he's not trying to sell me a car! Yes, it's TAG Heuer, F1 and Mercedes-AMG uber-fan, Albert-AMG! :)
Hi Albert, and welcome back! It's been a long time since our last interview, nearly eighteen months... back then the world was still 'normal' and I still had both my tonsils, how have you been?
Hi Rob!
Fortunately I have been in very good health, and focusing on watches, since our previous interview there have been several important additions to my humble TAG Heuer collection: a brand new Monza Calibre 17 40th Anniversary at the TAG Heuer outlet store near Barcelona, a NOS 300 SLR Calibre 1887, a vintage Formula 1 (380.513) in mint condition, a Connected Modular 45 Alec Monopoly Limited Edition, and a few more straps for my Modular collection that I thought I'd never find... so it's been a pretty active few months nonetheless!
I believe you were stuck at home for quite a long period as well?
Yes, in Barcelona we were confined at home for about two and a half months, and with my company closed... modifying and creating watch-faces for the TAG Heuer Connected, in addition to the forum in Calibre 11, were good distractions during that difficult period!
Yes, a lot of us, have had to find things to do at home, or had wives find us things to do... but thankfully here in the UK it looks like we might be starting to come out of this awful situation now. Anyway, let's start by looking back at last year and the 160th Anniversary of TAG Heuer. Did you have much expectation for the anniversary and the releases, and did you like the classic Carreras and the Carrera Datos that emerged?
I really like the two classic Carrera 160th anniversary pieces! At first I opted for the Montreal version, because I have always loved the Panda dials and also its production was more limited than that of the Silver Carrera... but after a while, and many photographs later, the Silver was growing on me and is currently my favourite of the two. I still have the Monaco Gulf CAW211R on my wish list ahead of the Silver CBK221B, but I certainly wouldn't mind having it at home! ;)
On the other hand, the Carrera Sport Dato did not convince me, neither of them... both would be very low on my wish list. I like them less than the conventional Carrera Sport, of which the black with rose gold CBN2A5A would be my favourite
Yes the Datos seemed to make very little impact and seem to have been all but forgotten even after a relatively short space of time. The silver 160th is definitely the one that made the most lasting impression (at least judging by the Calibre11 forum), but even that seems to be taking a long time to sell out all 1860 pieces (it's still available on the UK website a year after launch), I wonder which year the Datos will sell out?
Of course there were two other very notable limited edition TAG Heuers released in 2020, the solid gold Jack Heuer 88 Carrera and the (rather splendid) Bamford Aquaracer - which seems like it is going to be the last of that particular generation of the 300M dive watches. Did either of those make an impression on you by any chance?
Without a doubt, the pandemic has made it difficult for the 1860 pieces of the Silver Carrera 160th anniversary to sell as quickly as expected... the watch shops closed for a long time, and fewer customers willing to spend so much money on a watch, of course they are factors that do not help.
I like the Carrera Jack Heuer 88, especially its caseback, but at that price level I would be looking at the Heuer 02 Tourbillon mechanical module, which would be the icing on the cake for my Modular collection ;)
And I also really liked the Aquaradar by Bamford (which is already priced for a wider audience)... and I don't like many Bamford customizations, but I have to admit that they did a great job with this model. The digital version of the Aquaradar dial for the TH Connected is now one of my favourites!
Yes, I guess you are right about the pandemic having an effect, it just seems a little odd that the reaction to the watch has been so overwhelmingly positive and yet you can still buy one new a year after it was launched. I wonder if perhaps it's maybe just a little to do with the pricing (here in the UK the watch was priced at £5300), I know it has the Heuer 02 movement in it but even so. I don't know, the price is comparable to the Monaco Heuer 02 but it doesn't feel like it has the same level of 'work' in it - I mean it's quite a simple design, which is its strength, but I feel like comparing them side by side for the same money perhaps you would feel like you were getting more for your money with the Monaco?
Yes, without a doubt its high price does not help, and less in this context of a pandemic where so many domestic economies have been affected. And also without a doubt, as soon as we can initiate a recovery and an opening that can reactivate the economy, those that may have been left in stores will disappear quickly. I don't think TAG Heuer is worried that they will have CBK221B left to sell... do you think it will some day come to Bicester village? ;)
I agree, the 300SLR is undoubtedly a Carrera... and no I don't think the CBK221B will end up at Bicester Village, as we know (Calibre11 Forum member) Imagwai picked one up at a sizeable discount in January, so I think they will probably sell out that way before they get sent to Bicester, especially since there's no real 'reason' to dump them - it's not like there's an image rights agreement ending or anything. I do wonder if the Red Bull F1s will end up at BV though, since it probably says 'Aston Martin' on the caseback...
So, now that we've got that out of the way, let's talk about your ever expanding watch collection; I know you have got even closer to 'completing' your 2nd Generation Connected collection recently haven't you?
Yes, since the first interview in October 2019, my Modular collection has grown a lot... and I then thought the collection was complete! LOL
The fact that TH launched in 2020 a disappointing Gen 3 Connected made in China and no longer Modular, made me invest even more in my Gen 2 Connected Modular 45 collection as soon as I realized that I was not going to buy the Gen 3 Connected... so I bought a full set of the Connected Modular 45 Alec Monopoly Limited Edition (mainly because I wanted that unique painted strap by Alec in my collection!), and a brand new smartwatch module (head-only) to store it as a spare connected module for the future (so I have now a total of four connected modules plus two mechanical modules, Carrera Calibre 16 and Calibre 5).
I also found four more straps that I thought were nearly impossible to find because they were never sold separately (pink with logo), or were discontinued (yellow & black), or were never sold to the public (yellow with logo, red with logo)... and a fifth one is coming at this moment from Florida (orange with logo), because it was only sold in the US market. So a total of 27 different straps and bracelets, and just one more strap missing to complete the collection of all the straps that TH ever made for the Connected Modular 45... that are many! This last strap missing is from the Dubai Limited Edition (200 pcs), only sold in Dubai, and at the moment I’m trying to negotiate with the owner of one of these Dubai LE full set, with the help of another member of the C11 forum, Anthony R... so fingers crossed! ;)
You know it really doesn't seem all that long ago that you were telling me that you had three straps left to complete the set and you didn't think it would be possible to find any of them! So to hear that you are now in touching distance of getting all the straps is incredible and I'm really pleased for you. I never really understood the whole smartwatch thing (and still don't), but even if we ignore that part of the 'Connected' just a watch head with multiple easily changeable is such a great idea and I am very envious of all the super cool and colourful straps you have in your collection - I really wish TAG Heuer would make such straps for their normal watches, especially the colourful ones with the logos on them!
Once you have the last strap that's missing I guess you are going to have to start saving super-hard so you can get the Tourbillon module.... I know you've always said it's out of your price range, but I don't believe that you can really leave that one missing piece out forever, can you?
Yes, the wide variety of official straps available for the Connected Modular 45 was one of the factors that hooked me to the TH Modular concept, together with the possibility of exchanging the connected head of the watch for different mechanical heads, and being able to also combine lugs of different finishes and materials... then I already set myself the challenge of gathering all the existing straps and bracelets for the Modular 45, including those of Special and Limited Editions, and even ones that were never sold to the public and that were given to the members of a cycling team sponsored by TH. In addition, there are only official straps for the Modular system, as there are no replicas or straps from other manufacturers that are compatible, and it is something that I also like: you will never see a Modular 45 with a strap that is not TAG Heuer, and also specific for this model.
The fact that there is no such variety of straps for other TAG Heuer models gives the Modular 45 a differentiating effect that I also like, but of course it would be very nice if TAG Heuer offered a wider variety of straps for each of its mechanical models, with quick-release systems to change them, and that could be purchased as an accessory after purchasing the watch. With the Autavia Isograph something was done, but on a much smaller scale.
I also really like the rubber straps with logos, and right now I'm waiting for the arrival of the only one missing of them: the orange with logo.
If after the orange with the logo I also get the light blue strap of the Dubai LE (and the last one that is missing!), of course I will consider my Modular collection complete, and I will dedicate myself to enjoying the thousands of combinations it offers!
I have to be realistic, and spending €15000 on the Heuer 02 Tourbillon Modular 45 head does not seem reasonable for my domestic economy. Like I said before, I should win the lottery! A Monaco Gulf CAW211R (as the CAW211T is not viable) would be a more realistic target, but not in the short term either... I may have to wait for it to arrive in TH's outlet stores.
Well let's hope you do win the lottery as I would really like for you to complete this amazing feat of collecting! In the meantime, what better way to 'save' money than by moving into the classic Formula 1 market? So how did you come to purchase a 380.513, (which is the third watch we both own IIRC) it seemed to come somewhat out of the blue...
Thank you for your wishes that I win the lottery and so I can add the Tourbillon head to my Modular collection! I hope you win it too! ;)
I was born in 1970, so I was a teenager when first series TH Formula 1 were launched. I remember they were very popular in the car racing environment where I moved, and although it was the cheapest of the TAG Heuer, it was not a cheap watch at all (I couldn't afford it at that age!), and it became quite fashionable. I already liked it at that time, but perhaps because of the memories it brings me, I have found it more endearing many years later.
My love for these first TAG Heuer Formula 1s grew even more when I was making all their different dials for the TH Connected, and I thought it would be nice to find one in good condition... I wasn’t really looking for it, but then it appeared by chance in one of my other searches at eBay: a mint 380.513 in Italy, complete with box and everything else (it looks like NOS, except that the strap was already cut, luckily to my size!), which is one of my favourite versions, and I haven’t been able to let it escape! But one classic Formula 1 is enough for me, I don’t plan to start a collection of all the F1 different versions! ;)
What! No F1 collection? Ha, we'll see about that... I only had one for about a year, now I have seven! But maybe you are stronger than I... still, something has to take the place of your Connected collecting, and those plastic F1s are relatively affordable, haha.
Hahaha... at least for now I'm resisting the temptation to bring more classic F1s home!
So before we continue, since we're talking about colourful F1s I just wondered what you thought of the new 'Citrus' F1s that TAG Heuer launched a few weeks ago?
Well, the truth is that I don't like those two Citrus F1 too much... and also perhaps that dial with an asphalt finish is being abused too much, which was singular in one of the Monaco 50th Anniversary, and also in the F1 Indy 500, but after using it also in the Carrera Porsche, perhaps it is already too repetitive to see it now in those Citrus F1...
Yes, I think they need to be careful about things like that... but then again the regular customer (I mean not the guys who read forums) who probably makes up the bulk of the brand's considerable business probably doesn't care about that kind of thing because they are unlikely to see the Indy 500, the Citrus F1s and the Porsche Carrera next to each other in the same store... and even if they did, would it bother them? I'm not sure... I do think the forum is super critical of the company without looking at things from the real-world customer perspective sometimes.
Yes, of course, the brand designs their models and launches with the widest possible market in mind, which allows them to sell the maximum number of watches possible, and make the most business possible... and all their models will never be to the liking of all their customers. We can all have our personal preferences, but the brand must have a very professional and broader objective... although they are not always right either, and there are models that end up having little success.
So what else impressed you in 2020? And are you a fan of the Monaco bracelet?
The thing that impressed me the least in 2020 was the 3rd generation of the TH Connected, but leaving that disappointment aside, there were several 2020 models that I really liked:
As far as the Monaco bracelet goes... no, I’m not a fan of it, I prefer the Monaco with the leather perforated rally strap, by far!
Yeah, I must admit I'm not a fan of the Monaco on a bracelet either, although if I had to have it on a bracelet I would have the new one over the older one any day!
Looking down that list you've chosen some interesting pieces, especially the Japanese tourbillon Carrera! I feel you may have blinded by the funky camouflage strap and overlooked the horrendous fauxtina, what say you?
Hahaha ... no surely I was blinded or hypnotized by the Tourbillon! I have to admit that I have a predilection for the Heuer 02T... and I have no problem with the fauxtina of this watch.
Haha, so.... I see (from the Calibre11 forum) that while this interview has been going on you've added something else to your Connected collection, care to elaborate?
Yes, the auction ended yesterday, and I wasn't sure if I could win it... but I was lucky! :)
I found for sale in Germany (by ebay) the big and heavy box (41x35x22 cm, 14 kgs) of the TH Connected Modular 45 Luxury kit that accompanied the Heuer 02 Tourbillon mechanical module... since I cannot afford to buy the Tourbillon module, at least I'll have its watch box! It’s like a 'monument' from TH to the exclusive Modular concept of its 2nd generation Connected, including a mechanical module with its best movement. It’s surely one of the biggest and best watch boxes TH has ever made, a magnificent complement to my Modular collection, and it will be very useful for me to store several of its components in the best possible way :)
14kgs! That is crazy... I hope you have somewhere solid to put it! Hahaha, and what better incentive to save for the tourbillon module? I guess if you wait long enough maybe one will turn up pre-owned at a more reasonable price.
Hahaha... yes, I'm looking for a solid place for the watch box, and one of the options is to leave it directly on the floor, as a bedside table!
Out of curiosity I am looking at the prices of the second-hand Heuer 02T mechanical modules that appear for sale, but since the module was not sold separately but together with the entire Luxury kit (including the huge box and the connected watch, with two straps, charger, etc) I have never seen them below approximately €12000 (the retail price of the Luxury kit was €16650)... so it is still too expensive for me. I have never seen a second-hand Heuer 02T mechanical module sold separately so far, but even if one appears one day, it will hardly be below €10000.
Have you considered a paper round?
Hahahaha... My work schedule at the Mercedes-Benz dealership does not leave me free time to do other work that allows me to save enough to spend all that money at once on a single watch or mechanical module! You are very bad at tempting me like that, but I have to accept that the Tourbillon module is out of my reach, until I win the lottery... but at least I play the Euromillion every week! LOL
You also added a Monza 40th Anniversary to the collection to didn't you?
Yes, very shortly after our previous interview, in December 2019 and in a totally improvised way, I added the Monza Calibre 17 (40th Anniversary) to my collection. I had always loved that watch and regretted that it was discontinued, but visiting the TAG Heuer outlet store in La Roca Village (Bicester Group), near Barcelona, out of curiosity, they had one (logically brand new and with a full 2-year warranty), with a 30% discount compared to its original price... and I could not miss that opportunity! I love the Monza CR2080, and being made of titanium it is very light and comfortable to wear, which is also contributed to by its lovely soft perforated leather strap. 2019 was the year that Niki Lauda left us, closely linked to the Heuer Monza, so taking it home that same year was like a small tribute to Niki
So the other watch you mentioned was the 300 SLR, how did that come about?
In 2010, when the 300 SLR Calibre 1887 (CAR2112) was launched, I already had one in my hands on a visit to my usual AD, and I was tempted to buy it because I fell in love, although at that time I didn’t find it appropriate to spend so much money on a watch... but since then it was always on my wish list, and being a fan of Mercedes-Benz and TAG Heuer, sooner or later I had to have it. Plus the 300 SLR is one of my all-time favourite Mercedes, so even the car that gives the watch its name 'forced' me even more to take it home!
I had been looking, calmly, for a long time to see if a used one appeared in good condition and at a good price... when in February 2020 a NOS 300 SLR suddenly appeared in a London jewelry store, at a price not much higher than the second-hand 300 SLRs. I thought that maybe I would never find a brand new one in the future, full set, with a two-year warranty, and I went for it: it was number 2222 of 5000 pieces.
When it arrived from London and I opened the box, after about 10 years of not having seen another one IRL, I liked it even more than I remembered! It is gorgeous! And it forms a great pair with the Monza. They are two Heuer by TAG Heuer very related to motorsports that I consider essential in my humble collection, so I am delighted to have found them brand new as I could not buy them when they were part of the TH range.
I think in all honesty, those two are my favourite 'Heuer' branded watches. And I think for me at least the 300SLR is my first choice. I like the Monza, but the strap is not for me and again there's a little too much fauxtina on that dial for my liking. If it was white black and white I would probably love it even more....
I find it interesting that you say how 'at the time' you didn't find it appropriate to spend so much money on a watch, it's something that came up in the last interview I did (yet to be published) and it's funny how your perception changes over time. I feel like my limit is probably about £4000, beyond that I don't think I'd be able to relax wearing the watch, do you have a kind of 'limit' for what you feel is appropriate for you to spend or is it just driven by what is 'affordable' relative to your earnings?
Yes, it is curious how that perception of what we consider reasonable to spend on a watch can change over time... even with a similar level of earnings in both periods of time. Undoubtedly the Calibre 11 forum, and also your blog ;) have further increased my love and interest in TAG Heuer, and with it also that limit of what I am willing to pay for a watch from this brand (since I don’t plan to spend any significant amount on any other brand).
Of course that self-imposed limit depends on earnings and household finances, because although I agree with you at around £4000 as the most I would spend on another TAG Heuer (hence the Monaco Gulf CAW211R has also been somewhat out of my reach after its unjustifiable price increase... and now I would only consider it with a 30% discount like the one I would have if one day it reaches the TH outlet store), surely if I win that EuroMillion that I play every week it would raise significantly that limit, and for example I would spend €16650 on the Tourbillon mechanical module!
Okay, so is it that you can't justify spending more, or that you wouldn't feel comfortable wearing something more valuable than that and so there's no point buying? I'm asking that because as someone who has a fairly large collection of less expensive TAG Heuer's, it's obviously not the overall spend that bothers me so much as the focusing of too much cash into one purchase... or maybe you would rather have two or three £2000 watches rather than one £6000 watch?
I think if I had enough money to afford the Heuer 02 Tourbillon, I would feel very comfortable wearing it! ;)
You ask if I would prefer one £6000 watch or three £2000 watches? Well, it would depend on which watches they were, and whether I liked that £6000 watch more than the three £2000 together. But for example I wouldn't trade all my non-connected THs (300 SLR, Monza, Modular Carrera Calibre 5 and Calibre 16, 6000 Senna, S/el, F1 Senna, and Micrograph) for a Heuer 02 Tourbillon, which would be worth roughly like all those watches together... I prefer quality over quantity, but not to that extreme! I love all those watches, and just one watch (even being a Tourbillon) would not make up for the absence of all of them
Yeah, I totally get what you are saying, in fact I believe I made a post not too long ago where I discussed this very subject, using my Heuer 01 and ten cheaper watches as an example.
So, I guess this interview is probably getting quite long now... but I do want to ask you a couple more questions before we wrap it up. Firstly, what are you hoping for from TAG Heuer in 2021?
For 2021, with the 50th anniversary of the film Le Mans, I would like to see some special edition of a Monaco Gulf to commemorate such a nice anniversary, and preferably with the crown on the left, which is how I like the Monaco the most... I would also love a Heuer Carrera panda, with a black dial and white subdials, to complement the Carrera Silver and Montreal versions that we already saw last year. Such a model should stay in the range as a fixed model, not as a short limited edition.
Ah, but do you think there's actually the demand to create a permanent model? I mean, every 'heritage' Carrera has been limited to some extent which suggests that TAG Heuer don't really see a huge market for it. I can't help thinking that despite the 'noisy' heritage crowd on the Calibre11 forums, the market for the 'classic' 39mm Carreras is somewhat 'niche'?
And do you think TAG Heuer sees a huge market for Heuer 02 Tourbillons?
I think having one or more classic 39mm Carrera with panda dial as permanent models would be great for TAG Heuer's image, regardless of whether many or few were sold... Again: do you think many of the -permanent in the range- Tourbillons are sold? Surely not, but they give the brand a good image and prestige, as do the permanent Monaco, or as a permanent Carrera panda heritage would. I also think that the Monza CR2080 deserved to be a permanent model. Other manufacturers keep emblematic models in their catalogs whose designs have not changed in many years: they are timeless, they give personality to the brand and its range, and they always have their niche in the market.
And of course if those classic 39mm Carrera were more reasonably priced, a lot more units would be sold.
Well, that's a fair point... albeit I guess the difference is that the tourbillons aren't really 'permanent' as they are constantly being switched with different colours and combinations and the like so I would say while they aren't 'limited editions' they probably kind of are, just not explicitly. I agree I don't really know why the Monza isn't a permanent fixture, but I guess it's more about the impact it makes when they release the next 'special' model. I'd imagine the profit margins on those tourbillons are pretty high as well, given the list prices, whereas the Monza would have to operate on a similar level to the Monaco...
I guess you have to think from TAG Heuer's point of view 'what is the effect on desirability' of making something like that 'permanent'? If anyone can go get themselves that 39mm panda any time they want, would they actually be so inclined to do so? I don't know... but clearly, from a business point of view it seems to me that the 'heritage' market isn't the cash cow people think it is, otherwise I'm sure TAG Heuer would be all over it.
Yes, for sure TAG Heuer does their market research on how many units of those 'heritage' models could sell, but not everything is to launch or not a certain model depending on how many units are going to sell, it is also important to have in the range some models, which regardless of their sales volume, provide an image and prestige to the brand, allowing it to show off its history and tradition... they are models that revalue the rest of the range of the brand
That's a fair point too, maybe there is a case for keeping something truly 'classic' in the range... I guess it's a case of managing supply and demand. And maybe, also, there's some truth in that old idea that the watch industry never wants to give us the 'perfect' watch because if they did then where's the motivation to keep buying? It sounds counter intuitive, but just maybe there is something to it?
And perhaps they are just saving that elusive 'panda' for the 60th anniversary in 2023?
So, finally... a couple of days ago we saw the launch of the limited edition Hodinkee Carrera Dato, which pretty much sold out the same day. I wonder a) what you thought of the watch, but also b) how you feel about the whole Hodinkee phenomenon?
I would like that Hodinkee Carrera Dato even more if it weren't for the fact that the original watch it's based on is a lot better... especially the position of the date window so shifted to the left, it makes the whole dial look dislodged. I like it, it's pretty, but it doesn't stand up to comparison with the original, and I would choose either of the two Carrera 160 anniversary (Silver or Montreal), before this Carrera Dato
As for the Hodinkee 'phenomenon', well, there is nothing more than to congratulate Hodinkee for having achieved that level of prescription and success in the sales of its limited editions, including that absurdly expensive travel watch. Great marketing work!
Yes, I agree. The Dato has grown on me since it's been released, but the date window is super annoying and seeing it side by side with the original just shows it up so much. I get that they are restricted by the Heuer 02 movement's architecture, and I assume they've pushed it over as far as they could because they would have had to make a bespoke date wheel for this model anyway, but it just looks 'off' and considering the price I would have thought they could have found a way to make it work. I mean, I would prefer a different (non-in house) movement if it meant they could have sorted that issue because to me, that is never going to go away... it's only a couple of millimeters but it really impacts on the overall look.
But hey, who cares right - it's Hodinkee so it sold out, no questions asked... like you say, you can't really knock them because somehow they have managed to tap into that same pot of gold that Rolex and Supreme have their fingers into. Who wouldn't want to be a part of that?
Ok, so as always it's been a pleasure to talk to you Albert, but before we wrap this up... the Formula 1 World Championship is right around the corner and I wanted to ask... at which race do you think Lewis will become an 8x WDC?
Hahaha... theoretically, in a season with few technical regulation changes, Mercedes (even without DAS system) should dominate the Championship, and as a fan of the Silver Arrows I hope to see them win in almost every race... but if they will assure me that Hamilton wins his eighth Drivers 'Title, and that Mercedes wins his eighth consecutive Constructors' Title, I would sign that both Titles are decided in the last race of the year. It would be good for the excitement of the Championship... although I admit that personally I would enjoy more winning them all! ;)
Thanks Rob!
Thank you Albert and thank you for supplying so many fantastic photos, more than we could use unfortunately, but there's always next time!
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