FEATURE: Don't Trust AI to Tell You if a Watch is Genuine or Even If It Exists at All!

Quite regularly now I receive emails from people asking me to advise whether the watch they are thinking of purchasing is genuine or not. Of course I don't mind helping if I can, but honestly most of the time your best option is to join the THF forum and post the pictures there as there are much more fake-savvy people there who can advise you far better than I can. If a watch is obviously fake or it's an older model and I can be pretty sure it's pukka then I will give my opinion, but for anything recent, especially Formula 1 or Aquaracers, I generally can't say with any certainty.

However, when you get a watch like this 'TAG Heuer USA Air Force F-16 A/R Limited Edition' I don't really need to think too hard because this is clearly not a genuine TAG Heuer because this model simply doesn't exist!

But what if you don't know much about watches? Maybe you just think it looks cool? Some parts of it do look pretty cool I guess, if you like Breitlings... 

SPOTLIGHT ON: Another Ridiculous eBay Fake!

Just a little post today in lieu of a video... I reported the above 'Monaco 24' to eBay on Thursday and as usual they 'looked into it' and reported back to me that they found nothing in the listing that contravened their guidelines. I mean.... come on. It's not even difficult to see, is it? TAG Heuer have never even made a white dial Monaco 24 and even if they had it sure as hell would never have looked anything like this.

The only silver lining here is that the watch has a starting price of £3000. So if someone is actually gullible enough to purchase this (and it now has a bid!), then presumably eBay's 'hands on' authenticity checks will intervene. I mean, fancy being an authenticity checker and opening a box with this inside. You'd p*ss yourself laughing wouldn't you?  

SPOTLIGHT ON: Three Kinds of Very Easy to Spot Fake TAG Heuers

 

We all know that fakes are getting better all the time, and indeed so good are the newest fakes that I honestly wouldn't buy a WAY Aquaracer from eBay no matter how good the price was. But amazingly, eBay and in particular YouTube are still littered with bad fakes, fakes so bad you don't even need to compare or look for original images to check up.

#1. Eiffel Tower watches: I don't know where or why this started, but TAG Heuer have NEVER made a watch with the Eiffel Tower on the dial. I mean, why the hell would they? And yet these ridiculous looking things are so prevalent on You Tube! Of course I feel compelled to leave comments on their videos informing them of their 'mistake' and they always come back to me with either 'This is AAAAAA copy' or 'Of course it exists, look at all the other videos on YouTube!'. Yes, all the other videos posted by people selling equally fake 'Eiffel Tower' dial watches... unbelievable.

These seem particularly popular in India for some reason, the prices all seem to be in Rupees and if you Google TAG Heuer Eiffel Tower Watch you will find numerous India based websites selling them...

Example video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORGTKVFgJtc

#2. CR7 Carreras: Simply put, there are no CR7 Carreras. CR7, if you are not aware, was only used on one TAG Heuer watch, which was a black and green limited edition Formula 1 made for Cristiano Ronaldo (hence the CR7) in a run of 3000 pieces. But yet again, these things are an epidemic! Actually, as bogus fakes go these are actually quite interesting looking... but still, they are utterly fake and do not mimic any genuine TAG Heuer model. Again I feel compelled to leave comments which garner much the same responses as the Eiffel Tower pieces.

Example video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a2ySZr1ZcU

#3. Grand Carreras with solid casebacks: These can be the most convincing of the three, since on the surface they are pretty decent fakes and because they are actually copies of a model that genuinely did exist. But the simple truth is that no genuine Grand Carrera ever left the TAG Heuer factory with anything other than a clear display caseback (split into two) and whatever eBay sellers might tell you, that is indisputable. I recently left a comment on a YouTube video (linked to an eBay sale) and was told that I did not know what I was talking about. I'm not sure if the seller honestly believed this or not, but it doesn't change the fact that he was talking out of his hat! And, actually... after a couple more people added similar comments he changed his tune and took the video down - but not the eBay sale! 

Example video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNylFiafZQY

It's quite depressing how many YouTube videos there are of these fakes, I search YouTube every week for TAG Heuer videos and I would say 30% or more of the videos on there are obvious fakes.

So, there we are - three kinds of fakes that are obvious to those who know, but worth pointing out for the casual buyer. Don't forget, if you see something on eBay but you're not sure about it, it's always worth posting a question on the Calibre 11 forum to get a second opinion:

https://forums.calibre11.com/threads/is-my-tag-heuer-authentic-all-questions-here-please.33008/

VIDEO: I Bought a Fake Aquaracer by Watch Your Style

FEATURE: Is My Watch a Fake and How Can You Tell?

Over at the 'Calibre 11 Forum' we get quite a lot of instances where someone joins the forum solely to post one simple question, 'Is my watch a fake and how can you tell?'. Regrettably, more often than not the answer to the first part is a resounding 'yes', but as to the second part of the question... well that's a little more difficult to pin down.

If you have spent any amount of time looking at watches and TAG Heuer watches in particular, I'm hoping that you would be able to spot the 'Link' above as a fake without having to look too hard at it. It's not a very good fake, but to be fair it's probably good enough to fool quite a lot of people who aren't as engrossed in the subject as I am.

Though I wouldn't consider myself an 'expert', if you immerse yourself in a subject long enough certain things become second nature to you and you can spot some fakes without even going into detail; they just look 'wrong'. But if not, when it comes to Links and S/ELs the first thing I would look at would be the bracelet. Fakers are always wanting to cut corners and make things as cheaply as possible to maximise their profit, so they generally tend to make the bracelet links for these watches as one piece rather than two 'side by side' pieces. That's a dead giveaway.

Often times you see watches listed on eBay where they don't show you pictures of the backplate. While that doesn't necessarily mean the watch is fake, you should always look at the backplate if you are unsure about a watch's authenticity as it can often provide vital clues.

Looking at the backplate for this watch we can immediately see that this has a large 'Heuer' badge right in the middle where the dial is branded 'TAG Heuer'. This is an obvious red flag, but there are instances where you will find mixed branding on TAG Heuer watches. For example 'TAG Heuer' branded watches from the mid 1980s often used leftover parts such as 'Heuer' branded clasps and a lot of resin Formula 1s from the same period have 'Heuer' stamped on the crown. Even today, if you bought a 'Heuer' Autavia Heuer 02 with a glass display back, the movement is stamped 'TAG Heuer' so again, it's not cut and dried.

Often you will find misspellings on the backplates of fake watches, with 'chronometer' and 'stainless steel' among the most common mistakes. The fact that the watches in question are not in fact 'chronometer' certified is rather irrelevant in this context, but if someone is trying to sell you a Swiss made 'chronometer' for a relatively small sum of money then that in itself is worthy of caution.

This particular watch scores another own goal with the inclusion of the part number CR2111. If you Google CR2111 you will find that what comes up is actually a TAG Heuer Monza, rather than a Link, another major red flag. Sure there are occasions where genuine watches end up with the wrong backplate, but they are few and far between. This is a simple test, and while not conclusive on it's own, you'd be surprised how often the fakers get it completely wrong and the results should definitely not be ignored.

Image selected by Mr Orange

Because this watch doesn't even have the correct part number, it doesn't give us the enjoyment of pulling up an image of the real watch and comparing the two, but thanks to Mr Orange at the Calibre 11 Forum, we have this one as a comparison.

While a direct comparison is slightly pointless given the possible variances in genuine Link models, this does show immediately that the subdial layout is wrong. If both watches contain the Calibre 36 movement then they would definitely match, as you can see on the original the running seconds is at the '9' position on the real watch and '6' on the fake (more on that in a moment).

And while different pieces could have different hand set styles, the ones on the fake are clearly way too short for the watch dial.

While Googling for this post I believe I have come across a source (actually several, it's not at all difficult) for this particular fake... albeit they are showing it with a different (but still incorrect) caseback. This model is selling for $103 (£81), whereas the genuine article would be approximately £1800 pre-owned (judging by Watchfinder's website) and £3000+ when new, but then again the real thing contains a high quality 'El Primero' movement and this fake contains a Japanese quartz.

Unfortunately this is one of the easier fakes to spot, modern fakes are getting better and better all the time and it's now to the point where I and many other members of the Calibre 11 Forum simply wouldn't buy a modern Aquaracer from eBay under any circumstances. Older models are less likely to be faked, and older fakes are easier to spot because they just aren't very good... but if you want a modern TAG Heuer it really is best to stick to boutiques or authorised dealers. You might be able to save 20% going to a grey market dealer but are you actually getting the watch you are paying for? Judging by some of the photos I've seen, unless you are able to take the watch apart and compare it with the genuine article you wouldn't even know.

Surprisingly though, it's not usually those relatively expensive fakes that we get asked about, it's mostly the 'middling' ones like the example used here. Admittedly the forumites can be a bit harsh and abrasive when it comes to these posts, but generally these people have paid very small amounts for the watches they are asking about and they surely know deep down that they've bought a fake. Alternatively they could be fakers themselves looking for tips and advice on how to improve their craft..

If you are looking to purchase a watch on eBay, please visit this page which lists sellers known to have listed fake TAG Heuer watches previously:

http://tagheuerenthusiast.blogspot.com/p/blacklist.html

BLACKLIST UPDATE!

Our eBay 'friends' 'watchcompany-1' have apparently changed their name to 'casualwear11' and somehow they've managed to carry over their (completely legitimate I'm sure) feedback. Still using the same registered address and still selling the same shonky watches. I must say for a company that's turned over £100,000s of money selling watches they have a surprisingly small bank balance (£152)

https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/company/11018889-ancient-balance-limited

Needless to say, I've added 'casualwear11' to the blacklist...

BLACKLIST UPDATED!

Had to add a few more names to the 'Blacklist' today...

irsip-15, james88jones-0, norfolkgirl2015, pinsuk, scottgeorge86, sellera999 and tradesupplys

All selling terrible fakes on eBay today.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-...873044?hash=item4207278914:g:W8oAAOSwgCxdXYsx

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tag-heuer-watch/183929631982?hash=item2ad30f74ee:g:KAUAAOSw0w5dYjTE

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-X-Vint...467145?hash=item1a827e5549:g:a9YAAOSwTsNdWlyF

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tag-Heuer-Carrera-Caliber-17-Automatic-Mens-Watch-Chronograph/183922756796

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tag-Heue...279368?hash=item469b8adb88:g:O~oAAOSwhfZdOKSx

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-TAG-Heuer-Watch-Model-934-213/183924438756

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tag-heuer-grand-carrera-calibre-16-updated-information/264439478838

FEATURE: Please Read This Before Buying Pre-Owned TAG Heuers on Ebay!

http://tagheuerenthusiast.blogspot.com/2019/05/spotlight-on-suspicious-number-of.html

A while back I wrote a post concerning an implausible number of red and blue dial 1000 Series TAG Heuers being sold on eBay, these were pretty easy to spot because the dials didn't look right when compared to the original. These caught my eye again the other day when someone posted a photo of one of the red 1000 Series on the Calibre 11 Forum the other day asking if we thought it was genuine.

If you wish to read the thread on the Calibre11 Forum, it starts half way down this page:
https://forums.calibre11.com/threads/is-my-tag-heuer-authentic-all-questions-here-please.33008/page-93

Now I appreciate not everyone wants to read pages of watch nerds bickering over what is and isn't fake, but I feel I must share with you details of this case to try and help protect my readers from getting burned elsewhere. Because while these sellers seem to have been shut down for now (although at least one of them has started selling again this morning), this a large scale fraud and this is not just going to go away. It's clear that these guys are pretty smart and no doubt they will open up new eBay accounts and trickle the same watches back into the system (and doubtless use other avenues to sell their watches).

As it stands it would be wrong of me to say 100% these watches are fake, at the moment we are awaiting the results of two watches that have been sent back to TAG Heuer for assessment. From what I'm told by the buyers, these are excellent 'fakes', that require more than simply taking the back off to check... but the 'circumstantial' evidence (lets say) is huge and damning.

The watches are being sold as 'pre-owned' with 'light marks' but no boxes and no papers. This was probably a conscious decision to give the sales an air of plausibility, especially to anyone who didn't dig further than the seller's front page. Indeed, browsing the sellers 'items for sale' pages didn't really flag up too much, in fact if it wasn't for the 1000 Series that looked a bit off, I don't know if I would have even thought too much about it, it's only when you observe their previous feedback that you start to notice that something is wrong.

The first seller that I came across was called 'Tradenvint' their eBay page is here...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/tradenvint

Trade-n Vint Steingasse
7 Vienna, 1030 Vienna CA
Austria

Checking back through their feedback I noticed at least twenty 1000 Series divers sold in the last six months, which is completely ridiculous. If you find two or three red dial 1000 Series on eBay in a year you are doing well, and the watches go for a premium price (£800+), they certainly don't start at 99p. This had 'red flag' written all over it. Furthermore I started to notice that their other feedback was starting to paint a rather worrying picture as well as the same model numbers were coming up again and again and again.

Then it was pointed out that this was already being discussed in the TAG Heuer section of the 'Watch U Seek' forum, and about the same time a guy who had been posting there (James Biz) turned up on the Calibre 11 Forum. James has also purchased one of the watches and had taken it apart to confirm it's authenticity, he claims it is a fake, albeit a very, very good one. He has also sent his watch back to be tested by TAG Heuer.

James also pointed out two more eBay sellers that were peddling the exactly the same watches, even though they claim not to be connected. One of the two was much smaller, with far fewer watches sold, but still the similarity was striking enough to conclude that even if these sellers weren't connected they must be buying from the same source.

These sellers were:

'Watchcompany-1'

https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/watchcompany-1

Ancient Balance Limited
Watch Company
14 Hoe Street
Walthamstow
London
E17 4PH


and 'Fastbeat0'

https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/fastbeat0

Fast O Beat
Kunkegasse 8
1230 Wien
Austria


Anyway, feel free to read the thread if you want to know more of the ins and outs of our... 'debates' over this, but the important thing now to know is which models are affected and what you can do if you have bought from these companies and might have a fake watch on your hands.

These are the model numbers affected, the numbers in brackets are the numbers sold in the last year across the three sellers we know about. These figures alone are enough to know that there's something obviously amiss here... especially when concentrated between very similar looking watches that would only need different coloured dials

CAC1110.BA0850 (32)

CAC1111.BA0850 (27)

CAC1112 (34)

WAF1110.BA0800 (9)

WAF1111.BA0801 (16)

WAF1112.BA0801 (11)

WAF1113.BA0801 (12)

WAH1110.BA0850 (22)

WAH1111.BA0850 (29)

WAH1112.BA0850 (39)

WAJ1110.BA0870 (2)

WAJ1111.BA0870 (4)

WJ1110.BA0570 (9)

WJ1111.BA0570 (10)

WJ1112.BA0570 (14)

WJ1113.BA0575 (11)

WJ1114.BA0575 (12)

980.020B 1000 Series Two Tone (3*)

980.113B 1000 Series Lume dial (10*)

980.913N 1000 Series Red Dial (8*)

980.013B 1000 Series Black Dial (2*)

980.613N 1000 Series Blue Dial (2*)

*These figures are only for 'watchcompany-1' as Tradenvint did not specify individual watches in the description so it doesn't show in their feedback, but overall Tradevint sold '27' 1000 Series watches in the last year (making a ridiculous total of 52!)

Clearly this is a massive fraud, which has turned over hundreds of thousands of pounds, and that's just the TAG Heuers, these people were also selling Seikos, Omega quartz and Longines Hydro Conquests as well. Lots of them...

For me, the most worrying thing is that once these watches are sold and then re-sold via eBay by unsuspecting customers, they are going to be impossible to spot... (the red and blue 1000 Series excepted as they are clearly 'off), I mean I've always thought that one day I would pick up a late 00s Formula 1 off eBay for a few hundred quid just for the hell of it, but now I don't think that's a smart move.

But if you have bought one of these watches from one of these sellers in the last year or so, and/or possibly other auction sites or a third party seller on Amazon (because Amazon sure as hell wouldn't know a fake TAG Heuer if it smacked them in the face), then I would urge you to take steps to verify your watches authenticity. The only way to do this is to return the watch to TAG Heuer via your nearest Authorised Distributor. Don't take it to 'your guy' or your local jeweller, these 'fakes' are too sophisticated for that, they have the correct ETA movements so that won't even tell you anything. If your watch turns out to be fake then you should be able to return it to the supplier for a refund, or claim compensation from eBay or Amazon.

Huh, you know what I am calling these watches fakes... because if by some miracle TAG actually said the watches tested were genuine that would be even more unbelievable!

TAG Heuer's value retention is already weak due to overproduction (Jean Claude Biver said as much in the interview I posted recently) and saturation of the market through grey market sellers offering discounts, this is not going to help matters and we already know there are some extremely good 'new' Aquaracer fakes doing the rounds.

http://tagheuerenthusiast.blogspot.com/2019/08/feature-tag-heuer-fakes-on-ebay-are-now.html

The problem is, how do you protect yourself against this? These fakes are too good for us regular punters to spot, and I suspect even companies like Watchfinder wouldn't investigate far enough beyond the movement and general appearance to make sure, and once you get these watches being 'approved' by 'those who should know' then we are all on an extremely sticky wicket!

A while back there was much talk about watch companies getting in on their own pre-owned markets, buying back stock and selling pre-owned in their own boutiques. I think if things keep going the way they are this may be the only way you can 100% guarantee that you are getting the real thing....

In the meantime if you are bidding on or thinking about bidding on one of the items that Tradevint are selling today, I strongly urge you to reconsider your position.

FEATURE: TAG Heuer Fakes on Ebay Are Now Too Good to Ignore

Everyone loves a bargain, and what better place to shop than eBay...? Unfortunately, this 'bargain' is nothing but a fake. A very good fake that would fool the average man in the street for sure, but a fake nonetheless, and eBay really couldn't care less. I and others like me at the Calibre 11 forum report several watches a week, but they are rarely taken down - it's not in their interest after all*, they make a profit from every fake watch sold. But ultimately they are facilitating the sale of counterfeit goods, and to be honest we have to face the fact that fake watches are now at the point where unless you really know what you are looking at it's probably time to give eBay a miss.

*They don't exactly make the 'Report Item' button easy to find either!

Not for everything, I would happily buy pre-owned TAGs from eBay that date from the 80s, 90s and 00s. But anything that's relatively modern is downright dangerous, and the problem is, right now these look relatively obvious; they're always brand new with film on the bracelets, often complete with hang tags and even sticky labels all designed to make them look absolutely genuine. But sooner or later these will be back on eBay pre-owned, and if anything that will make them appear even more trustworthy.

It's hard to know if people are buying these knowing they are fake (seduced by ridiculously low prices) or if they are being hoodwinked, but either way it is unacceptable. I've seen utterly dreadful fakes sell for hundred of pounds, and that's even more hard to fathom than someone falling for this. At least the sellers still have the good grace to put pictures of the fakes they are selling on the site so at least we have a chance to spot them, it would be just as easy for them to use photos of genuine watches and send out the imposters.

So my advice to you if you're looking for a bargain watch is use an authorised dealer and ask for discount, or at the very least go to a reputable grey market seller (I wouldn't use Amazon either, most of their watches come from third party sellers so their reputation is irrelevant), or failing that buy from someone like Watchfinder who check the authenticity and performance of their watches before they purchase them.

Or if you must buy from eBay, go for old school watches like the 6000 Series and the Kirium. Fakes of these are absolutely terrible and easy to spot, and don't forget if you are looking at buying a watch on eBay the Calibre 11 forum members are eager to help (although some have a slightly acidic tongue - don't take it personally) and the more eyes on a watch the better really.

Seriously, I would not buy a modern Aquaracer (in particular) from eBay now, it's not worth it. You'll probably still end up paying £750-1000 and getting a fake watch that is basically worthless.

GET HELP HERE: https://forums.calibre11.com/threads/is-my-tag-heuer-authentic-all-questions-here-please.33008/

SPOTLIGHT ON: An unusual Fake TAG Heuer on eBay

Pointless at it seems to be, I still regularly report fakes to eBay, it doesn't seem to make any difference as I see the same watches there time and time again - but you've got to try. What amazes me sometimes is the variety of fakes, from the 'that doesn't look quite right' to the 'that's not going to fool anyone', and then there's this kind of fake - which is fake, but at first glance looks interesting and quite inventive.

I can actually see how the unwary might believe this was something more than it is, but I hope if anyone buys it they don't waste too much of their money. Clearly powered by a Miyota quartz movement, it probably works (well... who knows how much of it actually works) but it's quite funny that they put Mikrogirder on the dial but Mikrograph on the sides, fakers can't even decide what they are making!

The crown might fool some people as well, since it looks a lot like the crown on some of the current Carreras... and they've gone all out with the 'brickyard' dial design - to tie in with the Indy 500 theme. In some ways, while all fakes are bad and made with the intention of fooling people into parting with their money, I much prefer these outlandish designs to the bad 2000 copies. At least they give me a laugh... and hopefully anyone looking into buying will quickly realise that no such watch exists.

But then given people's ability to self-delude, the chances are they might think it's some kind of rarity... which is unfortunate. It does annoy me when you see garbage on eBay selling for the kind of money where you could actually buy a decent pre-owned TAG, but until eBay get their act together and react when people report the items being sold on their platform then I'm afraid this will continue.

SPOTLIGHT ON: Extremely Rare 1990s 'TAG Heure' Watch - TOTAL GARBAGE!

I was going to write about something completely different today, but this turned up on eBay and I just had to rip it to bits. What a joke this is... looks like a faux Kirium dial but that's about as close to being a TAG as this gets. The seller claims he's had this for thirty years and reckons 'you'll struggle to find a similar on eBay or the market at all', which can only be a good thing after all.

The seller also points out the 'wave pattern' dial (because TAG Heuer is well known for their wave pattern dials aren't they?) and 'date window' (such a rare and valuable asset in a luxury watch). But also points out the watch needs a new battery... and a new strap. Which is great, but what he doesn't tell us is where we might be able to find such a strap? Surely not from TAG Heuer since they never made this piece of junk in the first place! And that's a bit of an issue, since it's integrated into the case...

Of course one might harbour some lingering doubts, maybe it's a prototype that never made it into production? Well, one look at the case back tells you all you need to know about that...

Utter garbage, and the reference number they've used is real, but it's for a two-tone Aquaracer. Sadly this is being offered for sale from my own town (the shame) and all for the Princely sum of £309, which seems ever so slightly random. But still - the vendor is willing to take offers. I suggest £6.50 is about right. Needless to say I have reported it to eBay, who will do nothing about it, but you have to at least try don't you?

I thought that was the end of it, but going down the page I found that the same seller was also peddling another 'extremely rare TAG Heure'... this time a faux Alter Ego for men, with the part number off of an S/EL.

Again, utter garbage... and another pointless report filed to the useless and inactive eBay fraud department!